Retail Theft Pennsylvania

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Pennsylvania
Age: 20

so recently i was caught with 10 dollar worth stuff with a friend who had 30 dollar stuff worth on him at walmart

the cops were called they took our info, they said that we would send us a letter for finger printing and etc. it was my first time

and other problem is that my citizen ship oath is coming soon.

1) will this be a problem for me during the oath
2) can i get this record cleaned out

please help i can't sleep, eat can't do anything straight im freaking out really bad this is def. gonna be my last time ever doing something stupid

If you get convicted, then you can't get the record cleared in Pennsylvania.

I'm not sure about the citizenship oath; I'm not familiar with immigration procedures. If you've already been approved for citizenship, then this probably won't jeapordise it.

I will tell you the same thing that I wrote to the person in the next thread: stop freaking out. You are not helping your case by that. Your life is not over because of 10$. It is better to learn your lesson over such a low dollar amount, than getting caught with many items in your car that you have stolen from a few different stores. I am not saying that you ever did that (because I don't know you), but most habitual shoplifters do that all the time. And believe me, getting caught with multiple items from couple stores SUCKS. That's a sure way to get convicted with a felony.

1) I am not a legal/immigration expert, but I know a thing or two about the process because I became the citizen of the US couple years ago. Citizenship oath is the final part of becoming a citizen. You have already been approved for citizenship. Oath is a formality, so it would be highly unlikely for them to check to if you have been charged with something in that short period of time. When I came to my citizenship ceremony, all they did was made me sign in on a sign-in sheet and then they took away my green card because I wasn't gonna need it anymore. But to be on the safe side, consult an attorney who also specializes in immigration laws.

2) This I don't know. I am not familiar with Pennsylvania laws.

well i looked at the immigration stuff and i wanted to ask you what kinda of questions they asked you before you took the oath, because as you can see im kind of in trouble as it is and i don't want that to get in the way of me becoming a citizen

please let me know thanks

Hopefully, you are not confusing citizenship interview with citizenship oath. Citizenship interview is when you show up and they ask you a bunch of questions from the history of the US, etc. I don't remember anyone asking me if I was ever convicted of anything. But if they ask you, you can say no, because (depending on when your court date is) you most likely won't be.

If you already went through the citizenship interview and only have to go for an oath, then they won't be asking you any questions. You will just show up, sign-in and sit in the big auditorium-type room with probably hundred(s) of other people where somebody will be going on and on about your duties and responsibilities of a citizen and then judge will come in and will read an oath. All of you will be standing while he reads it and either repeat everything after him/her or at the end everyone will just say something like "I promise" and then that's it. The judge will start calling out people one by one and give them their proof of citizenship.


You said you are 20. You may be eligible for diversion (depends on the state and even county), which would let you keep your record clean. I would also expect judges in the states where expungement is not an option to be more lenient towards first time offenders (I am just assuming this; legal experts, please, don't chew me up if I am being completely off-base here). The best thing you will do is hire a good attorney. That will be money best spent and can save you from having a permanent record.

yeah we are working on getting an attorney as we speak.

and yeah i already took the interview, but couldn't get the oath date because they couldn't find any data of me registered for selective service which i was since 2008. i recently send them the proof of me being registered now im awaiting on the date i have to go for oath.

The court i most likely i have to go to is gonna be in bucks county, and i read somewhere they ask you what you have been doing since the interview if its longer than a day, so are you sure that they won't ask me the questions on whether i've been arrested, convicted etc.

so please if you can help me out based on the information i have if you need more information please let me know

Thanks

Ok, so when you find a lawyer, ask him about the availability of various programs that may be applicable to you.

I don't know where you read that, but my oath was scheduled about 1.5 months after my interview and nobody asked me anything like that. Nobody asked me anything at all and same was true for others because before I went to that big room, i hung out there and saw that other people were treated in the same way - they signed on sign in sheets and green cards were taken away from them. I wouldn't worry about citizenship right now because I don't think smth will go wrong with it at this point. Besides, it is not like you are a KGB spy and have commited a crime of Federal proportions.lol. And even if you have to go to court for this before the oath date, it is not like you are going to be convicted on the first date. It would take 2 or more visits.

Thank You so much for your advice and it has helped me a lot to get through my freaking out state:D

and yes i had a chance to talk to my mother who went through the same process as you did which really comforted me and when you said the same thing as she did which really comforted me thank you so much once again

and yeah we have a meet with our attorney soon so hopefully i can get into the programs that we might have a chance of getting in some how

Once Again...
Thank You so much:D

You are welcome. Someone I know had to go through smth like this, so I know how stressful that can be. If it were up to me, I would impose big fines on the first time offenders instead of convicting them and for the second time I would make the punishment even harsher than what it usually is (for not learning the lesson the first time). That way, people who made a mistake once wouldn't be punished too bad. And especially in the states were expungent is not an option. Jeez! But it is not up to me, unfortunately.

Good luck to you.

P.S. Obviously, I was talking about shoplifting AND under felony amounts.

yeah expungement is bit of problem in pa, but we do have programs like ARD but they only apply to higher up crime then first offense

and i would be really happy if i ended up getting the probation & community service or something like that but just gotta hope for the best and see how it goes

Thanks

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Quoting skyliner

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and i would be really happy if i ended up getting the probation & community service or something like that but just gotta hope for the best and see how it goes

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Well, what do you think you are gonna get? Jail time is extremely rare for the first time offenders. Probation, community service, etc. are what you would most likely get. But that still means misdemeanor conviction. However, it is MUCH better than felony conviction and if you finish the probatory period with no problems, that will also be mentioned in there. Make sure you ask your lawyer if pre-trial diversion is an option for you.

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Quoting skyliner

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we do have programs like ARD but they only apply to higher up crime then first offenseThanks

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Not necessarily. ARD is available for first time offenders as well. But it depends on the county. I am not trying to advertise any law firm in PA, but here is what one of them said:

"Another good option for some people charged with a first offense shoplifting / retail theft case is what is known as and Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition, or ARD. If the prosecution is willing to offer you and accelerated rehabilitative disposition plea, you will pay a fine, be place on probation for 1-2 years, and likely have to perform some community service.

If you do not commit any additional criminal offenses, after the probation period, the charge is removed from your record, so you will still have the opportunity to have a clean record. You will be able to honestly admit to having no criminal conviction.

ARDs are issued by the county, so it may not be available in all places, and in all circumstances. Please call me to discuss this option. Of course, depending on the facts surrounding your case, it may make sense to challenge the case in court and fight the charges upfront, before agreeing to a deal for an ARD.

As with any case, an experienced defense lawyer can only determine the best defense strategies after a thorough examination and analysis of the police report, and any other facts and evidence in the case."

Just ask your attorney if that program is available to you in your county.

yeah i will do that i just received a phone call from a attorney and i have meet at him in about an hour or so

About ARD i think they only offer to those who have shoplifted big amounts, so don't know until i talk to an attorney to see what kinda offer i can or have chances of getting but once again

Thank You so much for the help if you have anything else in mind please let me know

Thanks

I know you said that they don't ask you those questions that i was worried about but i was just reading some where and saw that USCIS does a check up on you before the naturalization oath ceremony, and i think before you even get the letter for the ceremony, and some where else that if your a perm. resident they can still "create problem" for many non-violent crimes such as in my case retail theft. so any idea on that

http://www.globallawcenters.com/citizenship.php

i read it by the risk of staying perm. resident

and also i wanted to ask you that when you got a letter that you are a citizen did you have any questions on back of your letter cause im reading some where that you have to answer those things, and plus yours was 2 years ago they could have changed rules or something in that and my parents was also about 2-3 years ago. so just wanted to ask you up on that

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Quoting skyliner

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about ARD i think they only offer to those who have shoplifted big amounts

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If that's true, that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard on the topic. Things like that should be available first of all to those who shoplifted small amounts. Doesn't really make sense.

Now about the citizenship. I became a citizen almost 2 years ago and I went through the process as I described. From what I know (and again, you need to ask an expert on this) citizenship oath is the last part and if you have been approved for citizenship, most likely nothing will go wrong with it at this point. Now, of course it is theoretically possible that when you come to the oath ceremony and sign in, they do the final quick check on you. When police pulls you over for traffic violation, he can also quickly check through their system if you are wanted for some crime or something. And yes, technically it is possible that immigration people have access to the same system or can make a quick call to the police and find out if you have been arrested and/or convicted in the last month.

But you shouldn't be worried about this right now for the following reasons: a) they probably don't or may not look up your record on the oath day, b) arrest doesn't mean conviction and you most likely won't have a conviction by the oath date, c) you may not get a conviction at all (either as a result of witnesses not showing up, which is rare, or through some program of delayed sentencing that may be available to you), d) you may be able to reduce a misdemeanor charge to a lesser charge or to infraction, which is better, and e) you cannot change the situation by worrying about it. At this point your goal is to get the best lawyer you can afford and try to fight this charge and get the best outcome. Don't drive yourself crazy. There are lawyers who have a lot of experience with shoplifting cases + immigration issues. This is the kind of lawyer you want. Their job is to get people out of situations similar to yours and they know MUCH more about this than I do. But most importantly, your situtation is not unique, so a good lawyer should asnwer all questions specific to your case and even give you an estimate of the possible outcome for you.

yeah i talked to a lawyer he said he can't be sure or make a promise on what can and will happen so which is why im little what worried this.

that's also what lawyer said just try to get it to lesser charge or something so just hope and pray that this is over without to much problem and really do hope i don't drive my self insane:wallbang: but again hope and pray

and i still haven't received the letter for the oath so that's why im thinking that this could be a problem but we'll see i guess

i sent you a pm can you check it out alisa