Eviction After Mail Theft

My question involves landlord-tenant law in the State of: Washington

Some months ago I put the monthly rent in the form of a cashier's check in the mail/drop box of the appartment complex. It was broken into and many rent payments were stolen. There was no way to claim anything from the cashier check issuer.
Since then, the robbers were clever enough to actually sign the checks in their own names, and are on video tape doing it! The post-master general is involved, since it is a federal offence -- it is considered a MAIL box.
The complex refuses to make an insurance claim, and insists that I am responsible, despite the criminal nature. They have even given me now an eviction notice. The police report and a report from the post master are not yet ready.
Am I really responsible for this mess?? What can be done? I am reluctant to claim it with my home-owners insurance, in case they do not repay later -- nobody will care after I pay. But I should not have to pay 2 times when their property was robbed, right?

Many thanks in advance!

What exactly is a "mail/drop box"? Are you talking about your putting payment into your landlord's official U.S. mail box, about your mailing the check via a mailbox located at the unit, or about a check you mailed that was stolen after delivery by the USPS? What exactly does your lease say about how you are to deliver rent payments?

You should recall that this isn't a question of your paying twice - it's a question of your first rent payment's having been stolen. The question is whether you can successfully shift that loss onto your landlord, or whether you have to absorb it yourself. If it were me, I would see what my insurance company would do.

It is a drop box outside of their office. It is also considered by the post office a mailbox. The check was put into the box.

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Quoting dan brown

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It is a drop box outside of their office. It is also considered by the post office a mailbox. The check was put into the box.

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First, you said "many rent checks were stolen". If I were you, I would find out the tenants where the rent checks are stolen, and maybe you can all hire an attorney.

It appears that the landlord may NOT have insurance for this type of thing. I don't know all of the legalites of who "rent checks in the drop box" belongs to, so maybe an attorney would have to look into your local laws.

I can tell you an analogous story that happened to someone at the bank. Someone was in the middle of making a deposit, placed the money on the money slot in front of the tellers window at the bank. But before the teller got hold of the cash, bank robbers came in, grabbed the cash.

This person tried to have the bank make good, but the banks defense is "our teller didn't put the hands on it yet, so it is still your money". So what do you do??

So she went to see an attorney, and the attorney sued the bank, alleging that the total lack of security at the bank caused this to happen, and the bank owes her the loss of the money, and her injuries. I don't think she was injured, but frightened. The bank settled, figuring it was cheaper not to fight the lawsuit.

In your case, I believe you have a better chance of suing the landlord on the bases of the "lack of security", because it is conceivable that monies left in a "drop box" can be lost or stolen, and if the landlords attitude is that monies in the box "is not their problem, in fact not theirs", why then make a vulnerable box available and then making tenants having to carry insurance on rent payments that can be stolen.

As to your eviction, your landlord figures it's too much trouble for you to fight it. In your case, the eviction requires a court hearing before the landlord can throw you out onto the street, so if I were you, I would go to court and argue that the money was paid, but stolen, and the responsibility is on the landlord "due to the total lack of security to prevent losses that are foreseeable".

I'm a landlord, and I can tell your tenants can use the "lack of security" issue in many other ways besides this to beat the landlord over the head.

What a fantastic answer!! Thank you for the obvious effort you made!

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Quoting dan brown

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What a fantastic answer!! Thank you for the obvious effort you made!

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In case you wonder how I know this fantastic answer, let me tell you what happened to me.

A tenant of mine was burglarized, several thouands dollars worth of stuff was taken. He was supposed to carry tenant insurance, he didn't, and wanted me to make good.

I spoke to my lawyer, then my insurance company, and obviously I was told my policy does not cover the tenant's belongings, that he has to get his own tenant policy. I was told my liability insurance only covers my negligience.

My tenant consulted an attorney, who then got after me for negligience, specifically the lack of security, for allegedly not properly securing the windows or doors, and not notifying my tenant of crime statistic in the area on burglaries.

I called my lawyer again, and he said "my my, you better file a claim and and have them settle this. You can't defend against this, because I figure you didn't secure your place like Fort Knox". I said "no, I don't collect enough rent to make it like Fort Knox".

I then contacted my insurance company, and this time it went in as a negligience claim, which I was covered for. They asked me "how much does the tenant want"?? It was settled.

The tenant was quite snotty during this whole incident, and I didn't renew his lease because he violated it for not carrying the tenant insurance as required. You might want to check if you are required to carry tenant insurance, and if you have it, see if it covers these cases.

Anyway, I figure your landlord should at least be covered for negligience. LOL

Thank you again! Yes I have tenant insurance -- mandated by the complex -- must be the specific one they say. I feel rather confident that when push comes to shove the insurance will cover it. Of course I can then expect higher premiums. Their argument is that I can not prove that I did not give the thieves the checks to cash, or that I deposited the checks in the dropbox in the first place. If I were involved, it would of course be literally a federal offense!!
Sorry to hear that you, as landlord, can be screwed through such loopholes.
Are you certain that their eviction notice has no teeth without the courts getting involved?

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Quoting dan brown

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Thank you again! Yes I have tenant insurance -- mandated by the complex -- must be the specific one they say. I feel rather confident that when push comes to shove the insurance will cover it. Of course I can then expect higher premiums. Their argument is that I can not prove that I did not give the thieves the checks to cash, or that I deposited the checks in the dropbox in the first place. If I were involved, it would of course be literally a federal offense!!
Sorry to hear that you, as landlord, can be screwed through such loopholes.
Are you certain that their eviction notice has no teeth without the courts getting involved?

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Here's a link to the WA eviction process:

http://www.rentlaw.com/eviction/waeviction.htm


The third items down reads:

"Entitlement to a court hearing. If the tenant disputes the reasons for the eviction, the tenant is entitled to a court hearing. "

You will insist on a court hearing, you dispute the reason for the eviction, your reason being "due to your landlord's negligience, in not providing a safe and secure drop box, the rent money you paid was lost". If other rent checks are lost, bring your fellow tenants in as witnesses. Bring along statements on the investigation from the postmaster etc.

And then let the judge decide to throw you out onto the street or not because your rent was lost, and the landlord decides "he's not going to file an insurance claim", and let him explain why he's not going to file a claim. Now, most landlords complain courts are pro tenant, and you'll find out soon enough if a pro-tenant judge is going to throw you out on the streets because the rent money was stolen, and you didn't come up with another month's rent fast enough. If you're a betting man, guess what the odds are. LOL

ladies and Gentlemen -- THIS is what I call a real help! Thank you SChinFChin for your valuable time!

One more question: The Landlord refuses to accept July's rent, until this other issue (March) is settled. What is the meaning of this, and am I then liable for late payments for July?
I have also been told that once it goes to court, that stays on my record and I can't rent anywhere again...

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Quoting dan brown

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One more question: The Landlord refuses to accept July's rent, until this other issue (March) is settled. What is the meaning of this, and am I then liable for late payments for July?
I have also been told that once it goes to court, that stays on my record and I can't rent anywhere again...

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In most jurisdictions, tenants can pay "rent into escrow", but it is usually better to have an attorney handle, you pay rent to the attorney, he places it into an escrow account, notifies the landlord that he has the rent. This is one way to handle it to show you are not shirking the rent.

If you prefer not to have an attorney involved, the other way is just to hold on to the rent check, and when you go to the court hearing, you tell the judge that the July rent was refused by the landlord. I don't see the point in this, since you cannot be put out onto the street without a court hearing anyway, so all you do is take this returned rent check along with any other correspondence with it to court.

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Quoting dan brown

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I have also been told that once it goes to court, that stays on my record and I can't rent anywhere again...

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Yes, it stays on your credit report for seven years, and in the court's records forever.

No, it does not mean that you'll never be able to rent anywhere else again. it just means that you'll be thoroughly grilled about the eviction, because people who've been evicted are seen as high risk tenants.

Should the eviction proceed and you seek out other housing, be up front about the eviction and the reasons for it when you apply for a place. You're more likely to find a landlord who will pay attention and work with you if you do it that way, than if you just remain silent and wait for them to ask about it.

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Quoting dan brown

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I have also been told that once it goes to court, that stays on my record and I can't rent anywhere again...

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I would suggest in your situation to keep an accurate record of your rent payments (rent receipts, money order receipts, cancelled checks etc.), so if you were to go rent another apartment, you can demonstrate you have consistently paid on time. Paying rent into escrow is also part of this.

If there are correspondence going back and forth previously about the stolen payments, keep copies of it as well, and put them into this "folder", so if you were to tell other people in the future a story about the theft, the landlord wanting you to pay the rent yet again, you have the paperwork showing all of this.

In other words, "document, document, document".

I have tenants showing up looking at my apartments with such paperwork neatly arranged in a folder, and with prior years W-2's or 1099's, latest check stubs etc. To me, it demonstrates responsibility, and if you show up well dressed, respectful, you should have no problems.

Years ago, I had a small problem with my bank. I was automatically saving money by having a sum of money taken from my checking to go into savings. Some time later, I went down to the bank to cancel this, also closed that savings account. Unbeknownst to me, they continue to withdraw the funds, credit the now closed savings account, and in the meantime, overdrawing my checking account, and racking up some bank fees.

I wrote to the bank, detailing the problem, and demanding they cancel the charges. They did, writing back a letter of apology, explaining the bank charges are now "written off".

What I didn't know the issue of the overdrawn account, a little over $100 in fees went onto the credit reports characterized as "a writeoff". I only learned of it many years later when I went to buy a home, get credit cards, and I was asked to explain the overdrawn account, and the "writeoff".

Fortunately, I had the foresight to write to the bank a letter explaining the original deal to automatically transfer funds, the errors they made cancelling the transfer. I included in the letter the fact I requested the termination of this, and then complaining the transfers continued resulting in the overdrawn account, and charges.

Because I wrote them, and the bank wrote back apologizing for the error, and finally saying, " please accept our apologies, and we have today written off the charges", I have an exact record of what happened.

I kept my letters, and the bank's response, for years not thinking much of it, and being a pack rat, still having it now somewhere, though it now more than 35 years. In fact, the question of the writeoff was raised on numerous occasions, and from time to time, some credit grantors had called or wrote me saying they were impressed with the records I kept, noting that "writeoff" is normally a reg flag, but a letter saying "please accept our apologies, and the unwarranted charges would be written off" puts the issue in a different light.

What I am getting to is you have to establish an "audit trail". You start so by writing a letter to the landlord explaining the issue from the beginning, that the rent payment made back in March was stolen, and so has the rent check of others, citing some names.

You go on to say that you have requested they file an insurance claim, but they refused, and it is unlikely that their accusations of you having friends steal it, and cash it to be ludicrous as it happened to many others.

The reason why you are writing this letter, is NOT for your landlord's benefit, they know all of this already, but for the benefit of others, years later, where they'll come back to you, and say "hey, I see this eviction on file".

I've been to court suing debtors, and judges like to see correspondence. There was one case I recall that there was absolutely nothing between myself and the person I'm suing that that judge looked at us in disbelief, saying, "in the future, after every call, write a letter".

Since you've been sent an eviction notice, you would include in this letter the fact that "you would welcome a court hearing on the eviction matter, and you do not believe you have to make 2 rent payments for the month of Mar".

Conclude by saying "you are more than happy to work with them with the theft investigation, but having them insist on evicting makes this all the more difficult", blah blah. This is solely for the consumption of future landlords who might think you are a troublemaker.

All of this in your files is for the consumption of others when you go rent somewhere else later, and you want to show you are more than willing to work with your landlord. Keep in mind other large apartment complexes might look at you as a troublemaker, though small property owners like myself would not.

Now, your current landlord can retaliate, and decide not to renew your lease, and unless you are under rent control, raised the rent tremendously to force you to move, so this would be more of an issue and concern from my point of view.