Re: Possible Return Fraud
You are trying to cheat the company. Knowingly and openly.
Re: Possible Return Fraud
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cyjeff
You are trying to cheat the company. Knowingly and openly.
How can i be cheating the company when i am following their own rules. arent they cheating themselves by not buttoning up their own loop holes?
And does someone have a legal duty to inform them of their loop hole if he/she has the intent of trying to benefit from it? wouldnt that be like companies informing the IRS that they plan on setting up otherwise legal offshore shell companies to reduce their tax liability? now, maybe they provide OTHER reasons for moving offshore (eg, lying or misrepresenting), but even im not doing those things. do you see what i mean ( beyond the, "two wrongs dont make a right" argument im sure you or someone else will make, lol).
I'm looking for legal input here, you know, on the EXPERT LAW forum - or at least some critical thinking beyond the typical blanket outrage.
Thanks.
Re: Possible Return Fraud
You got legal advice. If you don't like it, go pay for a lawyer.
Re: Possible Return Fraud
First of all, I am not a lawyer, but I have dealt with a number of shoplifting, return fraud, etc. cases, or more like people who do these things.
1. What you are doing may not seem technically illegal right now (you buy something and then return it - there is no law about not wanting to keep an item), but I would stop doing that if I were you. In reality you are cheating the company (and I am not talking about moral aspects here). You may be fine and this method may never backfire, or the store might notice your returning pattern and, believe me, there are so many loopholes in the law that they may charge you for something that you never thought was technically illegal.
If you returned an item because you bought it for 100$ and a week later it was on 50% sale, and you decided to take advantage of that price difference, I don't think you would be doing anything illegal. You didn't buy an item knowing that you would return it. You just don't feel like paying such a big difference. I can see lots of people doing it, and I don't think that constitutes fraud.
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PandorasBox
You got legal advice. If you don't like it, go pay for a lawyer.
That wasn't a constructive comment - the person doesn't need a lawyer.
Re: Possible Return Fraud
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Quoting
subtleT
How can i be cheating the company when i am following their own rules. arent they cheating themselves by not buttoning up their own loop holes?
And does someone have a legal duty to inform them of their loop hole if he/she has the intent of trying to benefit from it? wouldnt that be like companies informing the IRS that they plan on setting up otherwise legal offshore shell companies to reduce their tax liability? now, maybe they provide OTHER reasons for moving offshore (eg, lying or misrepresenting), but even im not doing those things. do you see what i mean ( beyond the, "two wrongs dont make a right" argument im sure you or someone else will make, lol).
I'm looking for legal input here, you know, on the EXPERT LAW forum - or at least some critical thinking beyond the typical blanket outrage.
Thanks.
Trust me... you aren't close to blanket outrage. In fact, I believe you to be dangerously close to not only a charge but an EASY charge....
You are gaining benefit for purchasing product that you are not purchasing. Better, to get that benefit, you are giving your name, address and telephone number.
One of several things will happen. One, they will just stop accepting your returns and/or benefits card. Two, you will have all of the points you have accumulated from returns removed from your account. Three, you will be arrested for stealing.
These things are not mutually exclusive and may ALL happen.
Have a nice day.
Re: Possible Return Fraud
Arrested for stealing? Not likely, since nothing described in the OP involves stealing. The store may deduct rewards points for returned items, or even ban him from returning or shopping at the store, but they can't have him arrested for stealing— he didn't.
Re: Possible Return Fraud
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The store may deduct rewards points for returned items, or even ban him from returning or shopping at the store
These are the most likely options, in addition to a chainwide ban AND being placed on a list of "habitual returners", circulated amongst all stores in the chain AND sometimes given to other retailers in the returner's home community.
Violating the ban would get our friend picked up for trespassing.
Re: Possible Return Fraud
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TheArgumentative
Arrested for stealing? Not likely, since nothing described in the OP involves stealing. The store may deduct rewards points for returned items, or even ban him from returning or shopping at the store, but they can't have him arrested for stealing— he didn't.
right, thats what i think. im returning the same item for the same price with original receipt. what i am benefiting from is a separate program that, granted, is rooted in the act of buying a product, however their system could easily zero out the benefit being afforded me upon returning it (and it does in certain situations - which means they DO know about it and have chosen to take SOME steps to deal with it. why not ALL steps? well, i dont know but i have my ideas, and that seems more like a business decision on their part rather than any kind of criminal issue on mine, ie the loop hole). therefore, the only thing i could see them doing is banning me from their stores.
and another issue i thought of is "waiver and estoppel" - lol. i dont know if that ONLY applies to insurance, which is where i learned about it, but if i go in there enough times where the employees flat out acknowledge this benefit i am getting AND repeatedly affirm that they are ok with me keeping it - it would seem like that repeated act tells me they, as a company, are ok with this and would therefore be estopped (?) from recouping what they (freely) gave me if they were to sue me in civil court. maybe thats a stretch and maybe that law wouldnt apply here, i dont know.
maybe when i do it again, i will bring it up myself and ask them directly if i get to keep or lose the benefit. i mean, if i do THAT, then there wouldnt even be an implied deception on my part. better yet, i could also keep a log of every employee that i talked to that said i could keep it. hmmm.
you know, even if i were only discussing this in the abstract, i would find it equally fascinating. im thinking i should have gone to law school, lol.
Re: Possible Return Fraud
Well, now that you have "established" (duh, no, you didn't; it's more like you got the response that you liked) that you "cannot" be legally prosecuted for this, maybe now it is time to think about moral aspects of it. Is this the kind of person/parent you want to be? Like Cyjeff said, you are gaining benefit for buying smth you are not buying. Or how does a little humiliation sound, when one day someone points at you while talking to somebody else? And if you live in a small community, you could easily become an object of glances and gossip. Or how will it feel when clerks start following you around and treat your every step with suspicion, like they do to shoplifters? Because, yeah, in their eyes you are stealing because as a result of your actions the store is LOSING money.
Whatever.