Embezzlement at a Retail Store
My question involves criminal law for the state of: Michigan
My 21 yr old child was arrested at work for doing a refund for 60.00 and stealing the money. She admitted to the security person that she only did the one time. They tried to coerce her into admitting she stole 2000.00 and was taking home merchandise. She told them she did not and that all the other refunds the store manager was there for and signed off on each one. That she always laid out the clothing refunds to show the employee who rang before she and the store mgr signed off but she never took any money for them. Now heres the tricky part, the store manager was trying to get my child fired for 6 months now cause "she's too bubbly". This manager has had 22 people fired in less than a year, 2009-2010. The district mgr is her best friend so she covers. Other employees are saying this mgr does this to eveyone, basically we think shes stealing the money and firing the employees to cover. Not saying my child didnt take the 60.00, but we have concerns here. They called the police had her aressted and released about an hour later with a court date and ticket saying Embezzlement agent or trustee less than 200.00. Can they go to court with additional accusations and get a higher charge added? What does this charge come with for legal issues? What do we expect at court? Can we get this dropped to a lesser charge? Do we take a lawyer with us? I have no job and been unemplyed 2 yrs just cut off from unemploment so no money. Help!
Re: Embezzlement - Retail
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Quoting
kelly37771
My question involves criminal law for the state of: Michigan
My 21 yr old child was arrested at work for doing a refund for 60.00 and stealing the money.
Legally, she is no longer a child.
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She admitted to the security person that she only did the one time.
So she admitted to the theft? Not smart.
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They tried to coerce her into admitting she stole 2000.00 and was taking home merchandise. She told them she did not and that all the other refunds the store manager was there for and signed off on each one. That she always laid out the clothing refunds to show the employee who rang before she and the store mgr signed off but she never took any money for them.
Unfortunately, an admitted thief will get to shoulder all of the thefts.
You see, judges are very reluctant to believe that a thief was caught the very first and only time they stole.
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Now heres the tricky part, the store manager was trying to get my child fired for 6 months now cause "she's too bubbly". This manager has had 22 people fired in less than a year, 2009-2010. The district mgr is her best friend so she covers. Other employees are saying this mgr does this to eveyone, basically we think shes stealing the money and firing the employees to cover.
None of that matters a bit. Your daughter DID steal and was properly fired.
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Not saying my child didnt take the 60.00, but we have concerns here
Why? Do you think that her crime is somehow lessened?
Tend to your own business. The inner workings of the store no longer matter to you.
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They called the police had her aressted and released about an hour later with a court date and ticket saying Embezzlement agent or trustee less than 200.00. Can they go to court with additional accusations and get a higher charge added?
No. but they can present evidence to the DA.
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What does this charge come with for legal issues? What do we expect at court?
You can expect fines, probation and community service for your "child".
You can also expect a civil demand in the mail for around $250.
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Can we get this dropped to a lesser charge? Do we take a lawyer with us? I have no job and been unemplyed 2 yrs just cut off from unemploment so no money. Help!
Have your "child" plead not guilty and ask for a public defender.
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
Thank you for taking the time to respond so quickly. I wasnt try to lesson or excuse anything that happened and I'm not involved or care about the inner politics of the company. I just felt that details needed to be given for a clearer picture. I also know that "legally" she is not a child nor do I treat her otherwise, but as a parent you probably know that this does affect the parents. Yes she admitted because they kept her their for an hour verbally attacking her until she gave into what she had done. (Still not excusing it) but of couse then the store mgr came in and said "oh she did these too". The ones she presented to security were the ones "she signed off on". How will this affect her for the future? Why a cevil demand, what is that for? A public defender a good suggestion, do we do that at the hearing?
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
Civil Demand: These are written by different states, and are perfectly legal.
You have to realize that shoplifting costs retailers BILLIONS of dollars per year. For every item your daughter shoplifted or commited refund fraud on...the cost gets passed on to ALL consumers through increased prices.
And don't think the Loss Prevention personnel, the cameras, etc, the lawyers, etc do not come with no cost.
Her future: Sorry, mom. You're "child" will have a Criminal Record that will show up on Criminal Background checks - and will affect her job and career options....(see the stickied thread about Affects of Shoplifting). She may be entered into the NATIONAL Retail Theft Database.
Public Defender - when she goes into court for her arraignment, she will need to plea "Not Guilty" and ask for a public defender. If she qualifies financially she will get one. She can ask about first time offender programs, but they are not offered everywhere.....
We can't tell you a sentence....it is up to the court, and all are different.
Just expect this to be a very expensive lesson for her.
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
How do they determine if she qualifies for free help? Not based on my income is it and my spouse? Because we DO NOT support her financially even though she lives here. She pays her owns bills and rent to us. I realize EXACTLY how much damage this has and will cause. I am humiliated by her actions. So basically she's screwed for retail jobs or any jobs? Thank you again!
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
Ever see the sign in WalMart that says shoplifting can cost $2000....they are not kidding.
Your daughters job options....forget retail. If she gets a job in fast food or a restaurant, it won't be cashiering. She won't be a waitress at a restaurant (handling cash and credit cards). She won't be a nurse (well, would you want your nurse to be a thief and maybe relieve you of your wedding ring?). She won't be working in a bank.
I am a reformed shoplifter. 1 time. I am older than your child. To get a real estate license application, I had to also get Certified Copy of Judgment; Letters of Recommendation from both friend and co-workers.....and let a panel of 5 people approve me (They did).
She is looking at Civil Demand. Court costs and fines. Costs for a lawyer or Public Defender (not free). If she gets Community Service, Probation, or even an anti-shoplifting class....they are not free either.
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
Nice to have a responder whos been in this situation to talk with. She was thinking of going into child care. So she should go in and plead "not guilty" and ask for the Public defender and how does is this different than a "guilty" plea? I guess I was under the assumption you had to not be guilty to enter that plea? Once a plea is entered do they schedule a hearing? Does the employees and managers come to the first hearing and have any rights as far as speaking and evidence? Not to get into the politics again but...They are threatening all the employees not to speak to her or they would be fired on the spot for giving her any information. Should she pass this info on to here attorney? Basically as I stated before the manager that was a part of this used her to also cover her own refund thefts and that's where this comes into play. Still not excusing my daughters actions. This manager is trying to tag more onto my daughter to cover her own butt as she has in the paast and the employees know this and thats where this threatening is coming from. Isnt that obstruction of justice or something? Again, I appreciate your time and look for to your responses.
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
"Not guilty" does not mean you are claiming you didn't do it. It means you are standing on your right under the law to have the state prove your guilt.
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
Any additional responses to my previous post? Anything else I may need to know before court?
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
Plead Not Guilty. Ask for a Public Defender.
I had a lawyer, so my case was handled in just a quick few minutes, not counting the time waiting.
Usually...it's Arraignment (the first court date). This is followed by pre-trial conference, trial, sentencing. It may not go that far, she may be offered a plea deal, aka pleading guilty to a lesser charge.
If it goes to trial, it would be expected that witnesses show up, including the manager.
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
So at the arraingnment hearing take the plea? Is that whe a public defender is there?
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
At the arraignment, she will plead not guilty and ask for a public defender.
He will end up trying to negotiate with the Prosecutor.
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
So a lawyer from the city this happened in sent her an letter saying he pulled her info and wanted to represent her. I talked to him checked him out he seems to be knowledgable. He is postponing her hearing and meeting with us. He said with no previous history he can possibly get it reduced to a fine. Sounds good, he only wants 750.00 half now and half later. Does this seem normal?
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
Yea, for non felony, non violent offenses, you can expect to pay a lawyer $500 to $1000.
Here is what will most likely happen, especially for a first time offender with a clean history, good family, promising future...blah blah.
They will be banned from the store. They will have to pay the store back for what they stole.
They may be entered into a retail theft database.
In court, it will most likely be reduced to nothing as long as they complete everything the judge orders. Community service, fines, probation, stay out of trouble etc.
It will be a huge learning lesson and life will go on.
Two things to think about.
#1 - the Security staff may not even show up and the case is dropped for lack of evidence.
#2 - I know a guy who was charged with felony shoplifting. His lawyer got it dropped to a misdemeanor and he completed a lot of community service, four days in jail, a fine. When all of this was completed, (including a year of probation), the judge dismissed the case against him and his record was clean again. Now he works as a sales manager for an insurance company and makes good money.
This is a wake up call. Theft is no joke, but this is not the end of the world for those who steal. Now, if they continue to steal, they may as well just commit to a life of crime.
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
I would check into the lawyers reputation - Better Business Bureau, etc. And I would consult with some other lawyers (many Criminal Defense lawyers offer free initial consultations).
Since her former employer is trying to say she stole more than she admitted to...and this lawyer says he can get her totally off for only $750....personally, I would be leary.
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
The was no security staff other than when they brought her in from corporate to interrogate and get the info out of her to call the police nor are there any cameras. No previous history other than traffic tickets. Going to college etc. Is there any way to not get put on that list?
@PandorasBox
He did offer a free consultation and he didnt say he could get her totally off, I may have mis-spoke. He said he could possibly get it reduced to a fine based on her history with some community service and fines. He cancelled her court date and rescheduled for 3-6 weeks to give him time to put this together and then he will go to the prosecutor and work out a deal. Does that sound right?
Re: Embezzlement at a Retail Store
Hi Kelly....
I have no experience with that. But if he's working, and sounds legit...