Can You File Theft of Services Charges for Unpaid Commissions

Sorry, I'm not an attorney and my expertise is wage and hour compliance; I don't know anything about "theft of services".

Arrested? I doubt it. Your best recourse is to file a civil claim for any unpaid commisions period, IMHO, as breach of contract. MW is a non-issue for ICs (even though I feel pretty certain you shouldn't be an IC). If he tries to reduce the amount by MW, he's going to put his foot in it, because that implies he knew he had to pay MW, which implies he knew you people should have been an employee.

I recommend you see an attorney in your area, specializing in employment and contract issues.

I agree. Florida law enforcement is going to tell you that this is a civil matter over an employment issue and to go to civil court or report any pertinent aspects to the various oversight agencies as Patty has already posted.

That's why I posted in two forums. One for independent contractors and one pertaining to criminal charges.

You absolutely can have someone arrested for theft of services. It most commonly applies to things like stiffing a cab driver or walking out on a restaraunt bill but there are other applications, like when you stiff your contractor that re-did your bathroom.

To me, it seems highly applicable to this since I did an agreed upon financially valuable and specifically valued service and am not being paid for it. I was hoping someone in the criminal charges forum would have a definitive answer for me on that, but I think that post may have been removed.


Also, I asked "wouldn't I (and possibly others) be suing for the commissions owed, not amounts above minimum wage?", as opposed to your suggestion of suing for amounts above minimum wage, since none of this involved any sort of hourly wage because that suggestion didn't seem to ring right. Although suing may be a waste of time and money since their books are so cooked....but I do have records of the clients, so maybe not all is lost.

Thank you so much for your time, expertise and suggestions of paths that may make his life hell. They are very much appreciated.

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Quoting I've had it.

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You absolutely can have someone arrested for theft of services.

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That's not being debated.

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It most commonly applies to things like stiffing a cab driver or walking out on a restaraunt bill but there are other applications, like when you stiff your contractor that re-did your bathroom.

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No. See the word "contract" in contractor? These are different than things like defrauding an inn-keeper (applies to restaurants) or strong arm robbery or petty larceny (most often applied to those who run out on their cab bill).

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To me, it seems highly applicable to this since I did an agreed upon financially valuable and specifically valued service and am not being paid for it.

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A situation which is governed by a CONTRACT. See that term "specifically valued"? Translation: CONTRACT.

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I was hoping someone in the criminal charges forum would have a definitive answer for me on that, but I think that post may have been removed.

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I WORK for Florida law enforcement, and I'm telling you definitively that NO law enforcement agency in Florida is even going to take a police report, much less going to press criminal charges over a matter that is EITHER an employment issue OR a contract issue. Either way, your remedy is going to be in CIVIL court, criminal charges are NOT going to happen.

Is there some particular reason why you seem to be shouting, Catherine?

BTW, as Patty has pointed out, I'm apparently not an independent contractor but an employee whose employer has miscategorized me for his own tax purposes.

Basically what you all have told me is that there isn't any realistic recourse to my situation beyond reporting him to the IRS for miscategorization of employees, since his books and records are purposely less than accurate, thereby making a positive result of civil action unlikely.

This explains why these type of workplaces flourish and are becoming even more prevalent as people become more desperate for work. Investigate the jobs listed under the "sales" category in most newspapers and on craigslist and way more than half of them are this sort of set-up.

Most people working in these positions have neither the skills nor resources (either time or even the cost of filing suit) to successfully pursue this sort of civil matter, and the individuals being robbed of pay are not owed enough to interest an attorney.

So short of them encountering someone that actually will seek out the information Patty gave me, and then that person acting on it, they are pretty much totally without fear of recourse. Nice.

Thanks for your time, ladies.

Have a nice evening.

If you prefer to approach this as a breach of contract instead of attempting to challenge your characterization as an independent contractor, you may sue the company in civil court for your unpaid bill. If you don't want to do that, that's your choice and you (not the volunteers here who are trying to help you) are responsible for that choice.

Don't get huffy just because people tell you what the law is. If you don't want to know what the law is, don't ask.

Dear Mr. Knowitall,

The only huffiness I've seen in this thread seems to have come from Catherine and, now it seems, you. I've expressed my thanks for the input and information in this thread multiple times.

All I've done in this thread is try to clarify my personal situation, digest the information given, and then expressed what would be the realistic point of view (from someone actually living and working under these conditions) that the majority of people being economically abused by these sort of employers might have. I did that with the general hope that those of you assisting others might, in the future, have a better understanding what workers like myself are up against since our numbers are rapidly growing.

I also considered the matter closed, as all pertinent exchanges of information had already been given.

I'm not sure why you felt it was necessary to take time out of your day to reiterate what had already been said and then chastise me as if I were a somewhat slow-witted and recalcitrant child.

Perhaps if those of you answering these queries read more closely what was being written, as opposed to scanning for general content while assuming the authors to be idiots, there would be fewer misunderstandings and attitude issues...and you all might feel a little less hostility toward people trying to ask questions about sometimes complex (at least to them) difficulties.

Try to have a better day.

Bottom line. File an SS-8 with the IRS. If you have worked there beyond your states minimum and are currently unemployed, file for unemployment as an employee. As for uncollected wages, IF you are found to be an employee, they WILL help you collect IF the employer is collectible (mine's not). It's a loooooong drawn out process, and sometimes you just have to decide where you're going to draw the line. Based on what you've said, the SS-8 may very well protect you in the future if you're found to be an employee.

AHA! A voice of actual personal experience that understands and has had first hand knowledge and experiences with both shady employers and paths of recourse, not just in the theoretical! Yes! That's what I was looking for!

Having legal rights is one thing. Attempting to exercise them to any actual positive effect in the real world is, often, quite another.

Thank you soooo much Mamabear!!!!

I don't think mine would be collectible either, given what I know about the financial structure of the business and also their record keeping. Hence my thinking that a civil suit might be a collossal waste. I've also discovered this slimeball put the company in his 20 year old son's name. I've met his son, he has no money. Apparently, Dad vaccuums it all out for himself without even leaving enough to cover payroll each week.

Out of curiosity, IF any action from the IRS SS-8 came to fruition, would they being helping me to collect what I was owed that was above the minimum wage? I ask because the Department of Labor doesn't have any interest in anything, as long as hourly minimum wage was met; so I was wondering if the IRS took a similar position.

One more question. In what ways could the SS-8 protect me in the future, if I was found to have been an employee?

Thank you so much for your time, Mamabear.