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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    3

    Default VC 21453(A) Versus VC 21453(B) - Cited for the Wrong Code Section

    My question involves a traffic citation from the state of: California

    The story: At 7:30am, I turned right at the intersection while having the red light. I got pull over by this police man who was driving a motorcycle at the time. He said I didn't make a fully stop before making a right turn at the stop light. I told him I did look to make sure it was clear before turning. He said, even so, I need to make a complete stop before turning.

    Now, I got a citation for 495 dollars. The code was VC21453(a), and the description was "Red light (RT Turn)"

    Questions:

    From what I've researched, VC21453(a) is for running through the red light. In my case -- turning right on red light -- the correct code should be VC21453(b).

    I called the court and stated the problem. They said hold on to the citation, they'd contact the officer for clarification. A month later, they got back to me and said officer said it was the correct code.

    Now, what should I do? Should I go to court to fight for the wrong code? Any guidelines on doing this?

    Here are the descriptions of VC21453 a & b:

    21453.
    (a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision
    (b) Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn, a driver, after stopping as required by subdivision (a), facing a steady circular red signal, may turn right, or turn left from a one-way street onto a one-way street. A driver making that turn shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to any vehicle that has approached or is approaching so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard to the driver, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to that vehicle until the driver can proceed with reasonable safety.

    Any advices are greatly appreciated.

    port2110

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: VC 21453(A) Versus VC 21453(B) - Cited for the Wrong Code Section

    The officer indicated that you didn't come to a full stop - meaning you did not stop before you progressed through the intersection. Slowing is not stopping.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    3

    Default Re: VC 21453(A) Versus VC 21453(B) - Cited for the Wrong Code Section

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    The officer indicated that you didn't come to a full stop - meaning you did not stop before you progressed through the intersection. Slowing is not stopping.
    Yes, I understand that part. But he should have given me the violation code 21453B instead of A. There is a huge different between A & B.

    A is for running through the red light and B is for right turning at the red light. Hence, the cost is also different. 500 versus 200, respectively.

    Any suggestion on how to fight with this?

    Thanks,

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    LA LA Land
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    Default Re: VC 21453(A) Versus VC 21453(B) - Cited for the Wrong Code Section

    Quote Quoting port2110
    View Post
    Yes, I understand that part. But he should have given me the violation code 21453B instead of A. There is a huge different between A & B.

    A is for running through the red light and B is for right turning at the red light. Hence, the cost is also different. 500 versus 200, respectively.

    Any suggestion on how to fight with this?

    Thanks,
    Both subsections, (a) and (b), of VC21453 require a driver to stop before crossing the limit line while the light is red. And while the fine for subsection (b) is in fact lower that that for subsection (a), the officer has a choice to cite you for either one, in spite of the fact that you allegedly turned AFTER the alleged violation occurred. Since VC 21453(a) is worded in a way that does not exclude a violation committed before making a right turn, it applies equally to the circumstances you described (whether you made a turn after the violation of running a red light or not). Meaning the officer did not cite you for the "wrong" code.

    You're free to make whatever argument you like. Ultimately, it is up to the judge to decide the outcome based on the officer's testimony, your cross examination of him and your testimony (if you choose to testify on your own behalf).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: VC 21453(A) Versus VC 21453(B) - Cited for the Wrong Code Section

    "that guy", thank you so much for you response. It all makes sense now.

    Any suggestions for me at this point? Should I:

    1. Pledge not-guilty
    2. Admit doing the right turn and see if the judge would willing to change the code to B from A
    3. Do nothing and pay the fine?

    Thanks,

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
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    9,175

    Default Re: VC 21453(A) Versus VC 21453(B) - Cited for the Wrong Code Section

    Quote Quoting port2110
    View Post
    "that guy", thank you so much for you response. It all makes sense now.

    Any suggestions for me at this point? Should I:

    1. Pledge not-guilty
    2. Admit doing the right turn and see if the judge would willing to change the code to B from A
    3. Do nothing and pay the fine?

    Thanks,
    The only way I can see you benefiting from pleading "not guilty" is if the officer does not show up. (It doesn't happen often enough.. but it does happen).

    And by the way, the judge canNOT change the charge/CVC section. Only the officer can request an amendment but that is highly unlikely.

    If you're eligible for traffic school, that maybe your best option (as far as I can see). And while that will mean that you will have to pay the fine amount + traffic school fees, it may help you avoid any future increases in your insurance premiums in that the citation is dismissed once you submit the completion certificate to the court.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: VC 21453(A) Versus VC 21453(B) - Cited for the Wrong Code Section

    Quote Quoting port2110
    View Post
    "that guy", thank you so much for you response. It all makes sense now.

    Any suggestions for me at this point? Should I:

    1. Pledge not-guilty
    2. Admit doing the right turn and see if the judge would willing to change the code to B from A
    3. Do nothing and pay the fine?

    Thanks,
    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    The only way I can see you benefiting from pleading "not guilty" is if the officer does not show up. (It doesn't happen often enough.. but it does happen).

    And by the way, the judge canNOT change the charge/CVC section. Only the officer can request an amendment but that is highly unlikely.

    If you're eligible for traffic school, that maybe your best option (as far as I can see). And while that will mean that you will have to pay the fine amount + traffic school fees, it may help you avoid any future increases in your insurance premiums in that the citation is dismissed once you submit the completion certificate to the court.
    Port 2110

    What did you end up doing? I've found myself in the same situation.

    thx

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