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  1. #1
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    Default Melendez-Diaz and Traffic Tickets

    Quote Quoting dwa
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    How do I subpoena the speed measuring device expert in WA? The officer notes contains the name of the expert.

    Do I have to pay any fees if the expert appears?

    I found this form online.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/5424379/03...EDING-SUBPOENA

    You should not have to. Any evidence the state introduces (i.e. Calibration Certificate, etc.), Object to it, and cite the Melendez-Diaz v Mass. Supreme COurt decision. This recent ruling requires documents to have the author testify prior to its admission. You have the right to confront your accuser in court.

    So, the State bears the burden of paying for the witness. But at the point of objection, the state won't have the expert there and your case should be dismissed.

    This poster had his case dismissed using this exact point recently:

    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/show...166#post398166

  2. #2
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    Default Re: How Do I Subpoena a SMD Expert

    Yeah, well, unfortunately, Jazzgear, the thread you refer to is from CA. This thread is about WA. You apparently don't know anything about WA law.

    Barry

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Wrong Infraction Date Officer's Statement in Discovery

    If the wrong date defense doesn't work. This here will:

    For RADAR/LIDAR, the prosecution will have to provide a certificate of calibration. You must immediately object to the evidence. A recent Supreme Court Ruling stipulates that non-business documents (the certificate doesn't qualify) requires it's author to testify before it can be admitted. You can be 100% sure that the State will not be paying to have this engineer come to court to authenticate the certificate.

    The case to cite is: Melendez-Diaz vs Massachusetts

    http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/08pdf/07-591.pdf

    There's a post on this forum from a poster who successfully won his trial by citing this ruling:

    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/show...166#post398166

    I see no reason you wouldn't use both strategies..as to leave no loop hole to the State.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Wrong Infraction Date Officer's Statement in Discovery

    NO IT WON'T WORK! Once again -- and this is getting tiring -- YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF WA LAW. Infraction Rules for Courts of Limited Jurisdiction -- written by out State Supreme Court -- contains the following:

    Quote Quoting IRLJ 6.6
    (b) Speed Measuring Device Certificate; Form. In the absence of proof of a request on a separate pleading to produce an electronic or laser speed measuring device (SMD) expert served on the prosecuting authority and filed with the clerk of the court at least 30 days prior to trial or such lesser time as the court deems proper, a certificate in substantially the following form is admissible in lieu of an expert witness in any court proceeding in which the design and construction of an electronic or laser speed measuring device (SMD) is an issue:

    And it goes on to show a sample form. Then IRLJ 6.6 (d) states:

    Quote Quoting IRLJ 6.6
    (d) Maintaining Certificates as Public Records. Any certificate, affidavit or foundational evidentiary document allowed or required by this rule can be filed with the court and maintained by the court as a public record. The records will be available for inspection by the public. Copies will be provided on request. The court may charge any allowable copying fees. The records are available without a formal request for discovery. The court is entitled to take judicial notice of the fact that the document has been filed with the court. Evidence will not be suppressed merely because there is not a representative of the prosecuting authority present who actually offers the document.

    These court rules basically allow the admission of a certification form WITHOUT THE AUTHOR! They allow it to be admitted even when not presented by a prosecutor. The court can even take judicial notice of it, as long as it's on file. So, if you're the defendant and you want to question the SMD expert, YOU must issue the subpoena!

    Since our Supreme Court has written these rules, it would take an appeal to the US Supreme Court to overturn them -- so until you're willing to take on such a task, these rules govern.

    You can go on whining all you want, but you are wrong when it comes to WA. Please quit passing along you non-relevant advice until you have some idea what you're talking about.

    Barry

  5. #5
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    Default Re: How Do I Subpoena a SMD Expert

    Yes, but read the posts carefully, The Melendez--Diaz is a U.S. Supreme Court Ruling which supersedes any local justices. And the post I was referring to is from a poster from Connecticut where he won his trial by citing this Supreme Court Ruling. It applies to both Washington and any other state.

    You apparently have no understanding of the U.S. Justice system -- in understanding that U.S. Supreme Court rulings outweigh any local court.

    http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/08pdf/07-591.pdf

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Wrong Infraction Date Officer's Statement in Discovery

    Quote Quoting blewis
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    NO IT WON'T WORK! Once again -- and this is getting tiring -- YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF WA LAW. Infraction Rules for Courts of Limited Jurisdiction -- written by out State Supreme Court -- contains the following:




    And it goes on to show a sample form. Then IRLJ 6.6 (d) states:




    These court rules basically allow the admission of a certification form WITHOUT THE AUTHOR! They allow it to be admitted even when not presented by a prosecutor. The court can even take judicial notice of it, as long as it's on file. So, if you're the defendant and you want to question the SMD expert, YOU must issue the subpoena!

    Since our Supreme Court has written these rules, it would take an appeal to the US Supreme Court to overturn them -- so until you're willing to take on such a task, these rules govern.

    You can go on whining all you want, but you are wrong when it comes to WA. Please quit passing along you non-relevant advice until you have some idea what you're talking about.

    Barry
    AGAIN YOU'RE THE ONE THAT DOES NOT UNDERSTAND. The Melendez-Diaz is a recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling, 06/2009. And it supersedes all of those local state rules.

    Since when do State Supreme Court Rulings outweigh the U.S. Supreme Court?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Wrong Infraction Date Officer's Statement in Discovery

    Quote Quoting Jazzgear
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    Since when do State Supreme Court Rulings outweigh the U.S. Supreme Court?

    Well, how about when the US Supreme Court decision is about a "criminal" matter -- as in Melendez-Diaz. Infractions in WA are NOT "criminal", and are, therefore, distinguished from "criminal" rulings -- unless otherwise indicated in the decision. Melendez-Diaz dealt with a drug case and the Sixth Amendment. However, the Sixth Amendment right to confront your accusers ONLY applies in "criminal" matters.

    As I said before, YOU don't know enough about WA law. In WA the officer will NOT show up at the hearing unless you issue a subpoena (see IRLJ 3.3 (c)), nor will the SMD expert (as previously mentioned). In WA the standard is "preponderance of evidence" (see IRLJ 3.3 (d)), NOT "beyond a reasonable doubt". And so on....

    You're obviously bright and fairly knowledgeable. You just don't know WA traffic law. If you think that getting your "post count" up will increase your credibility, consider how much you lose when you don't know what you're talking about.

    Barry

  8. #8
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    Default Re: How Do I Subpoena a SMD Expert

    No, sir, I"m afraid it's YOU who has no understanding of the Justice System. I addressed this issue here, so I won't do it again. Whine all you want, you're still wrong. I'm done with you...

    Barry

  9. #9
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    Default Re: How Do I Subpoena a SMD Expert

    Quote Quoting blewis
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    No, sir, I"m afraid it's YOU who has no understanding of the Justice System. I addressed this issue here, so I won't do it again. Whine all you want, you're still wrong. I'm done with you...

    Barry
    And your explanation there of the ruling is completely wrong -- 6th Amendment protection is not just for criminal matters. I already stated that this same ruling was cited in a Traffic Case (speeding) successfully....so get over it.

    Sounds to me like you're the one whining...geez, what a whiner

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Wrong Infraction Date Officer's Statement in Discovery

    I admit, I know nothing of WA law. But my contention is that the Melendez Supreme Court ruling, while a Criminal Matter, does not mean that the decision does not apply to non-criminal trials. Today, I have confirmed that the aforementioned Connecticut Speeding ticket trial did in fact end in a Summary Judgement as a result of the Melendez Supreme Court ruling being cited against the calibration certificate. In fact, the vehicle used to challenge the certificate was in a motion filed by the defendant, "Motion in Limine."

    I won't post the Docket number w/o the permission of the defendant, who is also a member of this board. If he wishes he can post it.

    In any case (no pun intended), if you have the stomach for it, I believe you can begin challenging the constitutionality of these local state laws and statutes as they relate to 6th Amendment rights in non-criminal trials. Connecticut may very well be the first and only state setting this precedent with the aforementioned Summary Judgement in favor of the defendant.

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