Overturning a Deed

[ktm rider]

This question involves real estate in ste state of West Virginia:

Got a large judgement on an individual in 2003. Put a lein on his property in 2003. found out much later that he transferred his home and all his assests and other real estate to his brother in 2001.
He declared bankruptcy in 2008 because of the pressure he was receiving to pay my judgement. He stated in his bankruptcy deposition that he "transferred it all to his brother so no one could touch it and no one could get his stuff in a law suit" His bankruptcy was denied.
He still owes me a large sum of money. I tried to overtun the deed on his home that he GAVE to his brother. Found out that the statute of limitations on fraudulent transfers is only four years in WV. But my question is this. Since I put a lein on his home in 2003, do I still have a case to overturn this deed?

[SChinFChin]

This question involves real estate in ste state of West Virginia:

Got a large judgement on an individual in 2003. Put a lein on his property in 2003. found out much later that he transferred his home and all his assests and other real estate to his brother in 2001.
He declared bankruptcy in 2008 because of the pressure he was receiving to pay my judgement. He stated in his bankruptcy deposition that he "transferred it all to his brother so no one could touch it and no one could get his stuff in a law suit" His bankruptcy was denied.
He still owes me a large sum of money. I tried to overtun the deed on his home that he GAVE to his brother. Found out that the statute of limitations on fraudulent transfers is only four years in WV. But my question is this. Since I put a lein on his home in 2003, do I still have a case to overturn this deed?

Did he know in year 2001 that he was going to be sued?? I don't know the whole story here, but if he had no idea in 2001 he was going to be sued, say you sued him in 2002, no way can you claim fraudulent conveyance in any event, SOL or no SOL.

A typical case is when someone follows some asset protection strategy, deeds his part of the home to a wife, or even a minor child, then goes on into a business entirely under his own name, so if something goes terribly wrong, his home would not be under his name, and he'll be protected. This is in the event he lives in a state with little or no homestead protection.

But if you argue SOL, the conveyance itself took place in 2001, so defintely it is beyond the 4 years. You can still garnish bank accounts, wages, lottery winnings, and any other thing permissible under your state's laws.

[ktm rider]

But if you argue SOL, the conveyance itself took place in 2001, so defintely it is beyond the 4 years. You can still garnish bank accounts, wages, lottery winnings, and any other thing permissible under your state's laws.

We but a lien on the house in 2003. I was kinda hoping that would have been our saving grace..

We have tried all of that. he works under the table for his brother and he uses his brothers companies bank account which we can't touch since it is NOT solely his account.
On paper this guy is worth $0. He only claims 4812 a month Social Security as his sole income... But, he lives in a new house and builds 300k houses with his brother ( who according to him, doesn't pay him) He also ownes a ton of real estate but, of course, he transferred all this to his brother in 2001 also... he seems to be untouchable and the fraulent conveyance was our only shot at collecting any money at all...

[SChinFChin]

We but a lien on the house in 2003. I was kinda hoping that would have been our saving grace..

We have tried all of that. he works under the table for his brother and he uses his brothers companies bank account which we can't touch since it is NOT solely his account.
On paper this guy is worth $0. He only claims 4812 a month Social Security as his sole income... But, he lives in a new house and builds 300k houses with his brother ( who according to him, doesn't pay him) He also ownes a ton of real estate but, of course, he transferred all this to his brother in 2001 also... he seems to be untouchable and the fraulent conveyance was our only shot at collecting any money at all...

The operative issue is whether he knew in year 2001 that he would be sued. If not, then he is simply following basic and widely accepted "asset protection" strategies. My wife did commercial lending, and found many business owners have their homes under the names of the spouse, and the business under their names only, so their homes cannot be taken away if something happens.

There is no point in deeding the home to a wife, go into business, get into a jam afterwards, and then have creditors sue under the theory that he should've known he would've screwed up.

And if you found in 2003 that you tired to put a lien on, the home is not under his name, you should've gone after him then for frauduelent conveyance. If you say the SOL for that is 4 years, I haven't checked, then the time limit has long passed.

[LandSurveyor]

He's obviously gone to an attorney to find out how to hide assets from you, and probably others. You need to get your own attorney on this as it's not a do-it-yourself project at this point.

I'd check into filing new liens on his new property. The SOL does not necessarily prevent that. The SOL does not automatically bar you from attempting to collect a debt. It is something he will have to actively raise in court as a defense. Even when successfully raised, it does not discharge the debt but precludes collecting it in that instance.

Finally, if I had been stiffed as you were, and flagrantly, I would not hesitate to involve the IRS. They have no such limitations as you have, and they may crack things open to a point where your attorney can get a grip. You will certainly cause some heartburn. See a lawyer.

Good Luck!

[SChinFChin]

I'd check into filing new liens on his new property. The SOL does not necessarily prevent that. The SOL does not automatically bar you from attempting to collect a debt. It is something he will have to actively raise in court as a defense. Even when successfully raised, it does not discharge the debt but precludes collecting it in that instance.



Good Luck!

My understanding of OP's issue is he put a lien on what he thought was the debtor's property in 2003, and it turned out that the property was already deeded over to someone else, his brother, in the year 2001.

If legal procedings started, he then went out and deeded the property to his brother, it's one thing, and it's far from clear if this is the case or not. If he legally deeded the property to his brother, filed all the gift tax forms, then gone into business, it's entirely different.

The SOL issue is entirely separate from the fraudulent conveyance issue. Even if you can get it under the SOL, deeding properties over to someone else before going into business is a long established asset protection strategy.

OP can seek free legal consultation from a local attorney, to see if it's worth the bother of going forward. If the debtor is earning money "off the books" to avoid garnishments, then it's more fruitful to attack this angle, IMHO.

[LandSurveyor]

deeding properties over to someone else before going into business is a long established asset protection strategy.

I thought the property was deeded over possibly after they went into business together. We don't really know, do we?

It's all just been strategy and not much law to this point.

The IRS has no such restraints such as respecting state SOL's, being restrained by multiple people being on a bank account, or actually having to go to court for any of this.

From the IRS, there are only imited asset protection strategies.

The IRS is easily able to take all of this type of stuff apart, and at that point, it can be a new game. They have the ability to warp time in their favor, and, once done, a court might well buy into it.

My point was, that if stiffed like the op, I might dial the toll free number.

And BTW, I am not involved with the IRS in any disputes and never have been (that I have lost).

[ktm rider]

He deeded the house to his brother in 2001. then his brother gave it to the son when he turned 18 in 2006. He has indeed covered his bases. He gets paid (by his brother) under the table and doesn't own a single thing, atleast on paper.
I would LOVE to turn over the deposition where he flat out admitted SS fraud, tax fraud and Bankruptcy fraud ( under oath) but putting him in jail would not get my debt paid. Handing him over so the IRS can screw him for tax evasion might get the IRS's money back for them but again, it would do squat for my debt..

I personally talked to the Bankruptcy trustee about his depositon and the blatant fraud it proves. he was HIGHLY interested in turning it over to the US Att. He said he gets hundreds of cases a month and doesn't have time to look for fraud in hardly any of them. Since this would be an easy fraud case he was highly interested. he also seemed a bit pissed at this guy for disrepecting the system like he did..

I am really, really tempted to just let him know that I plan on turning this deposition over to the US attorney for fraud charges to be filed on him unless we can come up with some kind of settlement.. of course, I am just tempted to do so..................

BTW-- I do have an attorney on this. he pretty much said the house it not touchable because of SOL. We can't really garnish wages eith since he gets paid under the table.. We aren't giving up though. I will get my money eventually...

[SChinFChin]

Good luck to you. Looks like this "deadbeat" is about as dead as they come.

Got a women in my employ a few years back who had $200K in judgements against her. She was smart enough just to work under 30 time minimum wage, or just enough not to be legally garnished. This way, no one can catch her "working off the books". Looks like your deadbeat isn't even doing that.

Yea, her bank accounts can still be garnished, and she's smart enough to cash her checks at the local 'check cashing" store. The car she drives around in is in her sister's name.

Now, she wanted to know what creditors can do to her, and I did a bit a research on her behalf for my state. I told her that creditors can make her life misable by checking on what household appliances she has, jewelry, computers etc., and seize everything that is not exempt. For instance, she can only own ONE TV, her wedding ring etc..

So, if you want to make his life miserable, you can. On the other hand, looks like you hit a dead end.

[ktm rider]

Yeah, it looks like it very well could be a dead end, atleast as far as getting any kind of money from this loser. But, I am going to do everything I can to atleast get him locked up for a while for SS, bankruptcy and tax fraud.