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  1. #1

    Default Police Jurisdication and City Limits

    Here is a detailed map/diagram regarding my ticket. Zoom in all the way. If you look at the details of the pushpins on the map, and hit "more info" link under the descriptions, it will take you to close up images of google street view.

    So I got a ticket for crossing a divided highway from the El Cerrito, CA Police dept. For part of my defense I am leaning towards a police county Jurisdiction angle. I believe I was just right outside the jurisdiction of the police that ticketed me by a few feet, by looking at the city limit signs for both city and county on both sides of the street. However, looking at yahoo, google, and bing maps though, the city/county limit line doesn't match the city limit signs on the street. But some of the physical address of buildings, and streets don't follow the line on their maps either. I looked at a physical map of the east bay, and there isn't enough detail to discern, the small street I pulled out of isn't even on that map. Ive tried to look for map images online and they dont have enough resolution or detail for my area of interest.

    I guess my question is will the court go off the street signs alone for accuracy on this matter, or do I need to go to some official city government building, for an official map. I'm thinking that even an official map from the city wont have enough detail or resolution for my purposes to really discern where the county line is by a couple of yards. I think the street signs should be used for accuracy in this matter, I don't see ho they could argue the inaccuracy of their own physical street signs.

    I also called the El Cerrito Police HQ, and asked about their Jurisdiction, thy have no Jurisdiction in Alameda County I was told. The Cadet also mentioned that they only go as far south as Fairmount Ave. Which is just north of Carlson Blvd. I'm not counting that that comment on Fairmount Ave. to hold up in court though.

    Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated, Thank you. Also comments on other details of the ticket based off the diagram would be great.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Police Jurisdication and City Limits(Map Included)

    The days of running to the county line to avoid a ticket are over.

    Usually, police departments have standing reciprocal agreements in place for just such circumstances.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Police Jurisdication and City Limits(Map Included)

    Quote Quoting cyjeff
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    The days of running to the county line to avoid a ticket are over.

    Usually, police departments have standing reciprocal agreements in place for just such circumstances.
    Even if the police dept told me they have no jurisdication outside their county? i may call again to get a clearer picture on this.

    But, I have read pretty much everywhere, that a police officer can only arrest or issue a citation outside of their jurisdiction, only if you committed the infraction inside their jurisdiction and they followed you. I haven't been able to find the exact laws in CA though. But of course there are exceptions if they have standing agreements.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Police Jurisdication and City Limits(Map Included)

    Quote Quoting majestik12
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    Even if the police dept told me they have no jurisdication outside their county? i may call again to get a clearer picture on this.

    But, I have read pretty much everywhere, that a police officer can only arrest or issue a citation outside of their jurisdiction, only if you committed the infraction inside their jurisdiction and they followed you. I haven't been able to find the exact laws in CA though. But of course there are exceptions if they have standing agreements.
    That's because the law doesn't exist.

    Let me ask you this. An officer looks across the street at a house on the other side. The street marks the county line and the house he/she is looking at is in another county.

    He watches a man shoot another man in the yard of that house.

    According to your logic, the officer can do NOTHING about that shooting because it did not happen within his jurisdiction - save report it to another police department, of course.

    Again, most police departments that butt up against each other have agreements to help each other out. It prevents one officer having to call another officer and both officers being taken out of play.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Police Jurisdication and City Limits(Map Included)

    I highly doubt that you're going to get a free pass based on a police jurisdiction argument. As long as the citation was filed in the court that has jurisdiction over the area where the alleged violation occured, then the citation will more than likely stick!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Police Jurisdication and City Limits(Map Included)

    Quote Quoting cyjeff
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    That's because the law doesn't exist.

    Let me ask you this. An officer looks across the street at a house on the other side. The street marks the county line and the house he/she is looking at is in another county.

    He watches a man shoot another man in the yard of that house.

    According to your logic, the officer can do NOTHING about that shooting because it did not happen within his jurisdiction - save report it to another police department, of course.

    Again, most police departments that butt up against each other have agreements to help each other out. It prevents one officer having to call another officer and both officers being taken out of play.
    For a felony yes, they can do something. For a motor vehicle offense, apparently they cannot.

    http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/rpt/2005-r-0398.htm

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    I highly doubt that you're going to get a free pass based on a police jurisdiction argument. As long as the citation was filed in the court that has jurisdiction over the area where the alleged violation occured, then the citation will more than likely stick!
    The citation was filed with the Contra Costa Court, that serves Contra Costa county. Albany is part of Alameda county. Here is a list of cities of Contra Costa County.

    http://www.co.contra-costa.ca.us/index.aspx?nid=1243 <- Albany is not one of their cities.

    Can Contra Costa Superior Court have jurisdication outside their county lines?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Police Jurisdication and City Limits

    I have already answered that question twice.

    No matter how many times you ask, the answer won't change.

    And your quote is, I believe, from CT. No bearing here.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Police Jurisdication and City Limits

    Quote Quoting cyjeff
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    I have already answered that question twice.

    No matter how many times you ask, the answer won't change.

    And your quote is, I believe, from CT. No bearing here.
    I'm not trying to step on any toes, and I appreciate the answers but to me your answers seem to be just opinion and speculation. I am just trying to provide more information and context for my situation. If I am going to be given such a trivial ticket, then I should be able to fight it over trivial grounds. Jurisdiction is not just some made up word, I imagine that it should have some merit in court.

    Anyways, what would be the easiest way to find out if there are any standing agreements for jurisdiction between the two countys?

    Also, looking over the linked map/diagram? Any other comments or strategies for fighting this ticket 21651(a)? Which states

    "(2) To make any left, semicircular, or U-turn with the vehicle on the divided highway, except through an opening in the barrier designated and intended by public authorities for the use of vehicles or through a plainly marked opening in the dividing section.

    Here is a more detailed image of the intersection in question, and the gap I drove through.



    Examples:
    -My car going through the gap, and not over the double yellow lines.(upon telling the officer this, all he said was ,"the gap is for the bank[Wells Fargo]"
    -No traffic signs what so ever at this intersection.
    -Officer writing the wrong intersection on the citation.

    Thanks

  9. #9

    Default Re: Police Jurisdication and City Limits

    I don't know the specific law but in California a peace officer has law enforcement powers state wide. A peace officer in San Diego county could write a ticket in El Dorado county (assuming he knew the court dates and addresses). CHP officers and Sheriff Deputies can write tickets in the center of a city and the city PD can issue tickets in the county.

    Arguing jurisdiction will not be a winning argument.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Police Jurisdication and City Limits(Map Included)

    Quote Quoting majestik12
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    Even if the police dept told me they have no jurisdication outside their county? i may call again to get a clearer picture on this.

    But, I have read pretty much everywhere, that a police officer can only arrest or issue a citation outside of their jurisdiction, only if you committed the infraction inside their jurisdiction and they followed you. I haven't been able to find the exact laws in CA though. But of course there are exceptions if they have standing agreements.
    Carl, the CA police officer who posts here has stated they have statewide jurisdiction, as the last poster also states.

    majestik12, the case you cite is a Connecticut case, and is not applicable in CA.

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