Unlicensed Driver

[phantaci]

My question involves a driver's license issued by the State of: California.

I am 19 years old and i have not yet taken my license/permit tests. I was practicing driving on a local street to prepare for the test when i was pulled over by a cop. I was cited for a misdemeanor as an unlicensed driver. How severe is this? What are the consequences and how should i deal with them?

[That Guy]

I am 19 years old and i have not yet taken my license/permit tests. I was practicing driving on a local street to prepare for the test when i was pulled over by a cop. I was cited for a misdemeanor as an unlicensed driver.

What CVC section were you cited for? Is it CVC 12500(a)?

If that is the case and even though you were charged with a misdemeanor, most courts in California will handle the matter as an infraction. Assuming you gave the officer your current mailing address, you should be receiving a courtesy notice in the mail approximately 21 days after the date of the citation. When you receive that, you can call the court to inquire as to whether it will be handled as a misdemeanor or an infraction.

How severe is this?

Like I said, there are 2 scenarios that might play out:
1. if you are charged with and convicted of (or plead guilty to) a misdemeanor, the you are looking at an approximate fine of $445 with zero violation points added to your record.
2. I if you are charged with and convicted of (or plead guilty to) an infraction then you are looking at approximate fine of $363...

However, your 3rd most likely option will be for you to go to the DMV, apply for your license, take proof of that (even if it is just a permit (instead of the actual license)) to show the judge and chances are you will get a break in that the he/she will allow you to simply pay a $25 administrative fee and have the charge dismissed.

Good luck!

[phantaci]

Hi. I saw a similar reply in another thread about a licensed minor allowing an unlicensed minor to drive his car. No offense to doubt you, but where are you getting this information and how credible is it? This was really not something i expected, since i am a pretty good driver,its just that i havent taken my license test due to college workload. The reason i was pulled over is because the rear left light of the car was broken, and i was SOL from there on.

The citation is in fact 12500 (c)VC (something like that, the officers handwriting is not quite legible). I also received an additional citation for no proof insurance (since i did not buy insurance for myself due to not having a license/permit). Does that count for anything? Is it disputable since the car was insured?

I am visiting the DMV tomorrow (Monday). Am I still able to the take the permit test and possible license test with a citation?

Thanks for all the help and info, this really means a lot to me.

[That Guy]

No offense to doubt you

None taken....

but where are you getting this information and how credible is it?

Here you go...

• California Courts Online
• Depending on which county you were cited in, you should be able to look up a link to your local county court which should also give you more information.
• California Dept of Motor Vehicles
• 2009 Uniform Bail & Penalty Schedule (look at the top half of page viii as well as the last paragraph on page xi. As for the fine amounts I quoted, you can look at page 7 for an infraction (don't forget to add the $30 + $35 referenced in the footnote on the bottom of that page), in addition to reading notes A, B and 8 on page 55. As for the misdemeanor, you can look at page 69 (again, don't forget to add the additional assessments mentioned on the bottom of the page).

This was really not something i expected, since i am a pretty good driver

Remember, you were not cited for being a “bad driver”, you were cited for being an “unlicensed driver”. BIG difference!

The reason i was pulled over is because the rear left light of the car was broken, and i was SOL from there on.

If that is the car that you plan on taking the road test in, you need to get that fixed before you will be allowed to use it for that. You can call the DMV or search their website (link above) to verify that bit of info.

The citation is in fact 12500 (c)VC (something like that, the officers handwriting is not quite legible).

Well, here are both, 12500(a) and 12500(c)

12500(a) A person may not drive a motor vehicle upon a highway, unless the person then holds a valid driver's license issued under this code, except those persons who are expressly exempted under this code.

12500(c) A person may not drive a motor vehicle in or upon any offstreet parking facility, unless the person then holds a valid driver's license of the appropriate class or certification to operate the vehicle. As used in this subdivision, "offstreet parking facility" means any offstreet facility held open for use by the public for parking vehicles and includes any publicly owned facilities for offstreet parking, and privately owned facilities for offstreet parking where no fee is charged for the privilege to park and which are held open for the common public use of retail customers.

Since you did not mention which subsection you were cited for and considering the fact that you did in fact state: “I was practicing driving on a local street", I assumed that the officer cited you for the proper CVC section; that being 12500(a).

If in fact he did cite you for 12500(c), then you can argue that he cited you for the wrong subsection since you were on a “highway” (and a "local road" also meets the definition of a "highway") versus an “offstreet parking facility”.

I also received an additional citation for no proof insurance (since i did not buy insurance for myself due to not having a license/permit). Does that count for anything? Is it disputable since the car was insured?

If you are unlicensed, then you are uninsured. There's no way to get around that. (You can call the insurer on that vehicle to verify that tidbit). However, if you are able to get your license/or your permit by your court date, and assuming you can show proof of financial responsibility (insurance) at that time, then you might get a sympathetic judge to reduce the fine... Otherwise, you are looking at a fine of $825 for that violation (assuming you were cited for CVC 16028(a))... (See page 11 of the Bail Schedule linked above).

I am visiting the DMV tomorrow (Monday). Am I still able to the take the permit test and possible license test with a citation?

As long as you have your permit by the date you are scheduled to appear in court, you should be fine. If for some reason the judge wants to be hard nosed about it, requiring you to have your actual license, then he will more likely offer you an continuance (a time extension) to do so... If he doesn't, you can ask for one to allow yourself some more time to take the test and get the actual license.

Thanks for all the help and info, this really means a lot to me.

Glad I can help... I think!

[phantaci]

WOW! an 825 dollar fine for 16025(a)? (yes, thats what i was cited for.
What are the chances of that being reduced(and possibly by how much)? I understand that this was my fault to begin with, but is it normal for people to be hit with 825 dollar fines in usual cases?

Also, since i am in college in socal,can court dates be postponed or rescheduled? (since my winter break ends early january, i will not be around norcal)

[cyjeff]

WOW! an 825 dollar fine for 16025(a)? (yes, thats what i was cited for.
What are the chances of that being reduced(and possibly by how much)? I understand that this was my fault to begin with, but is it normal for people to be hit with 825 dollar fines in usual cases?

Also, since i am in college in socal,can court dates be postponed or rescheduled? (since my winter break ends early january, i will not be around norcal)

Yes, get your permit, tell the nice judge that you are really sorry and hope for the best.

This is why, by the way, that you should have been practicing on private property.

I would avoid using the term "I am an excellent driver" in court... because the judge will ask how you know that... and you will say something along the lines of "everytime I drive, I am complimented on my skills" and ... well, you see where this could go.

[That Guy]

WOW! an 825 dollar fine for 16025(a)? (yes, thats what i was cited for.

16025(a) is for failure to exchange insurance informaton after an accident. Again, check your citation and make sure you're reading it right. It should be 16028(a)

What are the chances of that being reduced(and possibly by how much)? I understand that this was my fault to begin with, but is it normal for people to be hit with 825 dollar fines in usual cases?

Yes, I have seen it reduced and just like Cyjeff said, ask nicely and hope for the best. However, you should also read footnote 14 on page fifty-something of the Bail Schedule... In it, you will see that there are guidelines (minimum/maximum) for base fine amounts that the judge has to stay within (also be minful that there are additional penalties and assessments that must be added on top of the $100 to $200 amounts listed in that footnote). The same footnote also details the criteria that the judge can use to reduce the amount of that fine (pursuant to VC 16029 and other subsections in VC 16028). And from what you've posted, you don't seem to qualify. I would still ask, worse that could happen is you'll get a "no".

Also, since i am in college in socal,can court dates be postponed or rescheduled? (since my winter break ends early january, i will not be around norcal)

Assuming you have not asked for/received any extensions yet, you should be entitled to an automatic 60 day extension which you can easily obtain either online, by phone or throught the traffic clerk at the courthouse.

[phantaci]

I was able to go to the DMV and successfully pass my permit test today. Am i safe on the unlicensed driver citation for the time being? (i plan to take the road test within the next 2 weeks)

Also, is it different with the citations between a minor and an adult? I am 19 years old, but there was a case earlier with a 17 year old. I am just wondering if the penalties and ripple effects differ between the two.

Infractions are penalized by fine only, is that correct? Will it show up on my legal record? How does it count towards insurance rates (i called the insurance company, but they were not very clear and specific, gave me a bunch of "oh we will have to evaluate the situation" blah blah bs)

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[That Guy]

I was able to go to the DMV and successfully pass my permit test today. Am i safe on the unlicensed driver citation for the time being?

Under the circumstances, you've done all you can to show the court (when you appear) that you have made an effort to correct the matter. So yes, you should be on as safe a side as you can at this point. Ultimately, the final decision is up to the judge but I have not seen anyone get fined the full amount (assuming they applied for their license).

Also, is it different with the citations between a minor and an adult? I am 19 years old, but there was a case earlier with a 17 year old. I am just wondering if the penalties and ripple effects differ between the two.

Yes they are different... Not sure why you are so obsessed with that particular thread, but for your circumstances, all of you possible options, the variety of pertinent penalties, ripple effects and possible after effects were outlined for you in this thread.

Infractions are penalized by fine only, is that correct?

Correct.

Will it show up on my legal record?

Not sure what you mean by "legal record"... these violations, whether dismissed or not, will remain on your DMV record for 3 years. As far as "criminal record", and since these are only infractions (as opposed to misdemeanors/felonies), they won't show up in there. If you are asking about a background check and since no two are alike, it would depend on how extensive a background check it may be and what the entity requesting it might be loooking for.

How does it count towards insurance rates (i called the insurance company, but they were not very clear and specific, gave me a bunch of "oh we will have to evaluate the situation" blah blah bs)

If the insurance company could not answer that for you then it would be wise of me to not even try to pretend I could give you a definitive answer. My guess is that they should have no effect at all... Th operative term there being "GUESS".

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Please keep us updated on how it works out!