VC 22349(A)

paintballrazor · #1 12-09-2009, 03:43 AM

Speeding ticket from the State of California.

Hello,

I was in the car while my friend got a traffic violation for 22349(a)vc - Exceed Max 65mph. The ticket states the speed approx. was 80+ and max speed was 65, we were on the US101S.

The ticket does not state how the officer gauged the speed of my friend's car. There is no listed Radar/Lidar/Patrol Vehicle number. It was at night with no traffic, it was past 11pm. The CHP vehicle was parked with all its lights off on the right shoulder of the freeway. Is there anything that allows a CHP vehicle to have all its lights off?

Is it possible to get a ticket without pacing or using a radar/lidar? Or is it possible the officer did not write it on the ticket but specified it on their own report (if there such a thing exists)?

Lastly, there is a section named "Beat" and "Area". What do those mean?

Thank you for your help! Let me know if more details are needed.

THEAMAZINGCHAN · #2 12-09-2009, 04:58 AM

Is there anything that allows a CHP vehicle to have all its lights off?

i can turn my lights off with a switch inside the drivers area.

Is it possible to get a ticket without pacing or using a radar/lidar?

yes V.A.S.C.A.R

VASCAR (Visual Average Speed Computer And Recorder) is a vehicle speed measuring system that computes speed from two variables, distance target vehicle travels and the time it takes to travel that distance. Distance can be measured using the patrol vehicle odometer (the VASCAR computer is connected directly to the odometer), or entered from a keyboard inside the patrol vehicle.

Unlike many Police Radar Guns, the basic operation of VASCAR has the officer visually select any two landmarks (utility pole, crosswalk, sign, etc.), determine distance between landmarks (already known or measured with patrol vehicle odometer), and measure the time it take a target vehicle to travel between landmarks (push a button when target passes each landmark). VASCAR radar can be used by a stationary or moving patrol vehicle. In moving mode distance between landmarks is determined on the fly by the officer pushing a button when passing each landmark.

VASCAR has an advantage over microwave radar (most Police Radar Gun) and laser radar in the fact that a radar has to be close to the road, while VASCAR can be close to or far from the road. The operator only has to see vehicles pass between landmarks, making VASCAR more flexible (easier to hide patrol vehicle) Police Radar Guns. Also VASCAR does not transmit (microwaves or laser infrared signals) and does not alert a driver equipped with a radar detector.

Lastly, there is a section named "Beat" and "Area". What do those mean?

general location questions

EWYLTJ · #3 12-09-2009, 08:40 AM

Chan,

Have you read VC 40802 at all???

Quote:

40802. (a) A "speed trap" is either of the following:
(1) A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and
with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order
that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it
takes the vehicle to travel the known distance...

THEAMAZINGCHAN · #4 12-09-2009, 11:22 AM

Quoting EWYLTJ

Chan,

Have you read VC 40802 at all???

Yes i have but he did not ask if the cite was legal (yet) he only asked how it was possible to obtain his speed

paintballrazor · #5 12-09-2009, 12:14 PM

I guess now is the time if I ask if the citation was legal. If the officer did not have a radar readout or pace my friend's car, what grounds did she have to pull us over and give us a ticket for "exceed 65mph" and report an approx speed of 80+? Will it stick if my friend opts to choose the trial by written declaration?

How early can my friend submit a request to trial by written declaration form? And can he state he pleads not guilty on the form to save a day of just going to court and pleading not guilty in front of a judge?

I am trying to submit a written statement as soon as possible so the date the declaration is due by is near Christmas time. Is it possible to submit Form TR-205 a day after receiving the ticket? How long will the officer have to submit her statement if my friend submits his now?

Thanks again!

cdwjava · #6 12-09-2009, 12:36 PM

Quoting paintballrazor

Is there anything that allows a CHP vehicle to have all its lights off?

There is no law that says he cannot conduct speed enforcement with his lights off.

Quote:

Is it possible to get a ticket without pacing or using a radar/lidar? Or is it possible the officer did not write it on the ticket but specified it on their own report (if there such a thing exists)?

You can find out the method used through discovery. He might have made a visual estimate of your speed then paced you, or, he may have gotten a radar reading and neglected to mention it. No way to tell until you get more information - such as a copy of his notes.

Quote:

Lastly, there is a section named "Beat" and "Area". What do those mean?

These are notations on the geographical area he is assigned to patrol. They do no have anything to do with the elements of the offense and are not required information.

paintballrazor · #7 12-09-2009, 12:46 PM

Will the discovery have the details and methods of how the officer obtained the speed of the car for sure? I highly doubt any use of radar since the officer did not mention it and the officer did not have any time to pace since the patrol car was parked.

It just seems the officer wrote my friend up because we exited the freeway and stopped before the patrol car could pace us.

I am assuming if we request a discovery, it will sent by the officer well after the holidays. I am hoping the officer does not submit a written statement by the deadline which would be around the end of December if a written not guilty plea is sent today and a TR-205 is sent a few days after. Most people wish to delay the process but I am trying to use the holidays to our advantage.

Is it a reasonable idea? Can it be done before the courtesy notice with the bail amount arrives in the mail? Will bail need to be posted with the Not Guilty Plea? How would the bail amount be obtained before the courtesy notice arrives and the ticket written a day before?

cdwjava · #8 12-09-2009, 12:53 PM

Quoting paintballrazor

Will the discovery have the details and methods of how the officer obtained the speed of the car for sure?

It should at least rule in or out the presence of radar or lidar. His notes - if any - would likely indicate how he obtained your speed be it by pace or visual estimate.

Quote:

I highly doubt any use of radar since the officer did not mention it and the officer did not have any time to pace since the patrol car was parked.

Since most CHP cars are equipped with radar, that is the likely method used. However, all radar trained certified operators in CA are also trained in visual estimation as that is how they obtain your speed which is then confirmed or verified by the use of the radar.

Quote:

I am assuming if we request a discovery, it will sent by the officer well after the holidays.

The officer will not send it. The request is most often made to the DA. But, since most DAs do not handle traffic matters they will most often refer your request to the appropriate agency or to the court. You can also CC your request to the agency and the court as well and they may provide the information to you as well.

Quote:

I am hoping the officer does not submit a written statement by the deadline which would be around the end of December if a written not gulty plea is sent today and a TR-205 is sent a few days after. Most people wish to delay the process but I am trying to use the holidays to our advantage.

Law enforcement is a 24/7.365 deal. He iwll not be takin a couple of weeks off, and chances are his office will be closed for only one day the week of Christmas - maybe two days. So, the Holidays will not be too much of an advantage to you.

That Guy · #9 12-09-2009, 01:18 PM

Quoting paintballrazor

Is it possible to submit Form TR-205 a day after receiving the ticket?

It is highly unlikely that the citation will get filed in court the day after it is issued and without it being filed the court will not accept your friend's declaration. You'll have to wait until you receive the courtesy notice or you might also try to check the court's website to see when the citation appears in the system.

And yes, most courts will require you to post bail when you elect the TBD option. If your friends wants to request to be released on his/her own recognizance (O.R.) in lieu of posting bail, he/she will have to ask the judge for that on the date of the arraignment (which is typically the "appear or pay by" date on the bottom of the citation).

paintballrazor · #10 12-09-2009, 01:36 PM

Thank you all for the prompt and informative replies.

After reading, the course of action I will advise my friend to take is:
1) Wait for Courtesy Notice
2) Mail Written Not Guilty Plea to the court
3) Receive TR-200 and TR-205.
4) Submit a discovery request to the court
5) Review discovery, then mail TR-205 (TBWD).

Can the discovery request be made before writing Not Guilty to the court? Is there a difference between a discovery and an informal discovery? Can my friend do all this by mail and not need to go to court? Thank you.