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  1. #1

    Default Unreasonably Denied Permit to Purchase Handgun Denied

    My question involves civil rights in the State of: Minnesota

    I have recently moved from out of state to be with my fiance. After the move, I no longer have access to a shooting partner (with two of us, we would usually just rent or use one of his).

    So I applied for a permit to purchase.

    I am 24.
    I have no criminal background or psychological issues what-so-ever.
    I hold a MN state drivers license.
    My company has registered my earnings for taxes with the state.


    This request was denied by the city police on the grounds that my move was "less than 1 year ago", that I was not a registered leaser in the city (as I moved into a house already leased by my fiance), and that my MN state ID was recently provided.

    I did provide a very detailed past-address listing, so that my criminal record (or lack there of) could indeed be verified as clean from my previous state.


    My Questions:
    -------------
    Is there any grounds to this denial?
    I was not aware of an in-state residency length requirement to purchase firearms.

    If so, what does the statute/law look like, and how long will I have to wait?

    I understand that being denied flags you as an increased risk, and can increase the probability for denial again.
    After the required time has passed (if any), should I expect this to still hinder my ability to purchase?
    (As it was still a legal request. I realize that attempted to apply for a firearm that you are not allowed to own is a felony.)

    If it isn't grounds for denial (as the only reason), what is my recourse with the city?

    ** I have no desire to bring anything against the city, I just want to be able to resume my hobby/sport.




    Any help/advice/clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Key West, FL
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    2,350

    Default Re: Permit to Purchase (Handgun) Denied (Non-Felon) Mn

    I posted a different reply because I had never heard of getting permission from the local police to purchase a gun. Usually you only need their permission for a CCW permit. My understanding is that it was a matter of the gun dealer running your info against the NCIC gun clearance database. Apparently in Minnesota you need to have permission from the local police department before going to the gun dealer. I have never heard of that. Thus, I stand corrected for anyone who read my previous post in the 10 minutes it was up.

    I should mention that the local requirement applies to assault type weapons and hand guns. There is no such requirement for a standard hunting rifle.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: Permit to Purchase Handgun Denied

    Have you checked the Sheriff Department's actual policies, so you can see if they've been followed? (You didn't identify the county, so we can't do that.) Any chance of moving to another county where the rules are less stringent?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Permit to Purchase Handgun Denied

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    Have you checked the Sheriff Department's actual policies, so you can see if they've been followed? (You didn't identify the county, so we can't do that.) Any chance of moving to another county where the rules are less stringent?
    I've called back for the officer that wrote the letter (as it instructs at the bottom that I can call them with questions). They are yet to return my voicemail however.

    (I thought handgun laws were at a state level though? Each county has their own rules?)

    Unless we plan to sell the house, no. Moving is a kind of nonsensical, for something that I don't see any kind of legal precedent for.
    (That I can find.)


    It's Ramsey county, if you must.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Permit to Purchase Handgun Denied

    At risk of responding too many times to my own thread, I found the following:

    In federal law:
    Title 18 of the U. S. Code, § 925A, reads as follows:
    "Any person denied a firearm pursuant to subsection (s) or (t) of section 922--"

    "(2) who was not prohibited from receipt of a firearm pursuant to subsection (g) or (n) of section 922, may bring an action against the State or political subdivision responsible for providing the erroneous information, or responsible for denying the transfer, or against the United States, as the case may be, for an order directing that the erroneous information be corrected or that the transfer be approved, as the case may be. In any action under this section, the court, in its discretion, may allow the prevailing party a reasonable attorney's fee as part of the costs."

    Where (g) is the standard listing of felonies that deny firearm ownership and where (n) is the state listing of issues that can deny firearm ownership.

    For (n), I believe something like this would apply.
    http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/firearms.pdf

    None of the listed reasons for my denial are listed. However, I couldn't find any explicit mention of availability to legally pursue a denial.
    (Meaning I would have to pursue the case federally?)

    I found "State law preempts all authority of local governments to
    regulate firearms" in the MN firearms law.



    I also have still yet to be able to contact the officer who denied my permit. They are not returning my very polite voicemails (and no, I am not threatening anything, I simply state that I have some questions regarding the denial).

    **While obviously a forum is not legal advice

    Does this sound like grounds for a suite?
    Would an attorney possibly take this on a contingent fee basis?

    Basically, is this worth actually pursuing, or are my odds to abysmally low to be worthwhile?

    (As you may have guessed, as a regular citizen, I can't afford to pay for lengthy litigation.)


    Again, thank you in advance for any help.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Permit to Purchase Handgun Denied

    To sue over a violation of the law, you must first establish a violation of the law.

    I'm not going to guess about your county.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Default Re: Permit to Purchase Handgun Denied

    I'm a gun dealer (though not in MN), and as such I have to follow all state as well as federal laws for firearm transfers. For example, I could legally transfer a bolt-action rifle or pump shotgun to you, but not the semi-automatic rifles defined as "assault weapons".

    In addition to a rather thick book provided to me by the ATF, one of the best resources I've found when looking up a state's laws is the NRA-ILA web site. For your situation: http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/MNSL.pdf.

    For MN I didn't find out how to appeal the denial of a handgun purchase permit. There is a process to appeal the denial of a concealed carry permit. So, if I were you, I'd apply for a concealed carry permit. If one is issued, all well and good since it also can be used to purchase a handgun. If not, you simply file a complaint in your local District court, which is much cheaper and faster than going to Federal court.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Permit to Purchase Handgun Denied

    The NRA folks (who I was talking a bit with), suggested this:
    (See the bolded text)

    Their policy is that I have to actually have an open case before can request any financial assistance.

    With the information below, what sort of costs would I expect to be charged by an attorney?
    Would an attorney possibly take this on a contingent fee basis?



    624.7131 TRANSFEREE PERMIT; PENALTY.

    Subd. 4.Grounds for disqualification.A determination by the chief of police or sheriff that the applicant is prohibited by section 624.713 from possessing a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon shall be the only basis for refusal to grant a transferee permit.

    Subd. 8.Hearing upon denial.Any person aggrieved by denial of a transferee permit may appeal the denial to the district court having jurisdiction over the county or municipality in which the denial occurred.


    History: 1977 c 349 s 4; 1986 c 444; 1992 c 571 art 15 s 5,6; 1993 c 326 art 1 s 28-30; 1994 c 618 art 1 s 41,42; 1994 c 636 art 3 s 29-31; 1998 c 254 art 2 s 67; 2003 c 28 art 2 s 34; 2009 c 139 s 4

    DISQUALIFICATIONS FOR PURCHASE PERMIT IN MINN.

    624.713 CERTAIN PERSONS NOT TO POSSESS FIREARMS.
    Subdivision 1.Ineligible persons.The following persons shall not be entitled to possess a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon or, except for clause (1), any other firearm:

    (1) a person under the age of 18 years except that a person under 18 may carry or possess a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon (i) in the actual presence or under the direct supervision of the person's parent or guardian, (ii) for the purpose of military drill under the auspices of a legally recognized military organization and under competent supervision, (iii) for the purpose of instruction, competition, or target practice on a firing range approved by the chief of police or county sheriff in whose jurisdiction the range is located and under direct supervision; or (iv) if the person has successfully completed a course designed to teach marksmanship and safety with a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon and approved by the commissioner of natural resources;

    (2) except as otherwise provided in clause (9), a person who has been convicted of, or adjudicated delinquent or convicted as an extended jurisdiction juvenile for committing, in this state or elsewhere, a crime of violence. For purposes of this section, crime of violence includes crimes in other states or jurisdictions which would have been crimes of violence as herein defined if they had been committed in this state;

    (3) a person who is or has ever been committed in Minnesota or elsewhere by a judicial determination that the person is mentally ill, developmentally disabled, or mentally ill and dangerous to the public, as defined in section 253B.02, to a treatment facility, or who has ever been found incompetent to stand trial or not guilty by reason of mental illness, unless the person's ability to possess a firearm has been restored under subdivision 4;

    (4) a person who has been convicted in Minnesota or elsewhere of a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor violation of chapter 152, unless three years have elapsed since the date of conviction and, during that time, the person has not been convicted of any other such violation of chapter 152 or a similar law of another state; or a person who is or has ever been committed by a judicial determination for treatment for the habitual use of a controlled substance or marijuana, as defined in sections 152.01 and 152.02, unless the person's ability to possess a firearm has been restored under subdivision 4;

    (5) a person who has been committed to a treatment facility in Minnesota or elsewhere by a judicial determination that the person is chemically dependent as defined in section 253B.02, unless the person has completed treatment or the person's ability to possess a firearm has been restored under subdivision 4. Property rights may not be abated but access may be restricted by the courts;

    (6) a peace officer who is informally admitted to a treatment facility pursuant to section 253B.04 for chemical dependency, unless the officer possesses a certificate from the head of the treatment facility discharging or provisionally discharging the officer from the treatment facility. Property rights may not be abated but access may be restricted by the courts;

    (7) a person, including a person under the jurisdiction of the juvenile court, who has been charged with committing a crime of violence and has been placed in a pretrial diversion program by the court before disposition, until the person has completed the diversion program and the charge of committing the crime of violence has been dismissed;

    (8) except as otherwise provided in clause (9), a person who has been convicted in another state of committing an offense similar to the offense described in section 609.224, subdivision 3, against a family or household member or section 609.2242, subdivision 3, unless three years have elapsed since the date of conviction and, during that time, the person has not been convicted of any other violation of section 609.224, subdivision 3, or 609.2242, subdivision 3, or a similar law of another state;

    (9) a person who has been convicted in this state or elsewhere of assaulting a family or household member and who was found by the court to have used a firearm in any way during commission of the assault is prohibited from possessing any type of firearm for the period determined by the sentencing court;

    (10) a person who:

    (i) has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

    (ii) is a fugitive from justice as a result of having fled from any state to avoid prosecution for a crime or to avoid giving testimony in any criminal proceeding;

    (iii) is an unlawful user of any controlled substance as defined in chapter 152;

    (iv) has been judicially committed to a treatment facility in Minnesota or elsewhere as a person who is mentally ill, developmentally disabled, or mentally ill and dangerous to the public, as defined in section 253B.02;

    (v) is an alien who is illegally or unlawfully in the United States;

    (vi) has been discharged from the armed forces of the United States under dishonorable conditions; or

    (vii) has renounced the person's citizenship having been a citizen of the United States; or

    (11) a person who has been convicted of the following offenses at the gross misdemeanor level, unless three years have elapsed since the date of conviction and, during that time, the person has not been convicted of any other violation of these sections: section 609.229 (crimes committed for the benefit of a gang); 609.2231, subdivision 4 (assaults motivated by bias); 609.255 (false imprisonment); 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child); 609.582, subdivision 4 (burglary in the fourth degree); 609.665 (setting a spring gun); 609.71 (riot); or 609.749 (harassment and stalking). For purposes of this paragraph, the specified gross misdemeanor convictions include crimes committed in other states or jurisdictions which would have been gross misdemeanors if conviction occurred in this state.


    History: 1975 c 378 s 3; 1983 c 269 s 2; 1Sp1985 c 9 art 2 s 98; 1986 c 444; 1991 c 279 s 36; 1992 c 537 s 3; 1993 c 326 art 1 s 27; 1993 c 366 s 11; 1994 c 576 s 55,56; 1994 c 636 art 3 s 27,28; 1995 c 259 art 3 s 21; 1996 c 408 art 4 s 15; 2002 c 221 s 48; 2003 c 28 art 3 s 8-10; 2005 c 56 s 1; 2005 c 83 s 1; 2009 c 139 s 2,3

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