Speeding Ticket/Curfew Violation for a Minor in Los Angeles County, California

[crazywithateenager]

My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: California -- Los Angeles County.

My son who is 17 yrs. old, on a "provisional" license received an infraction ticket for violation of both: CVC 22350 and CVC 12814.6. My questions are as follows:

The ticket states that he was driving "65+ in a 50 mph zone" and was determined by the officers by "pacing" him. My question is are there any specific rules/regulations that an officer must follow in order to accurately (or most accurately) determine a "pace" speed. I ask because given the circumstances from the first light he was stopped at to the second light he stopped at, the distance in between seems to be too short to have been "paced" with any sort of accuracy.

Second, in regards to the curfew violation. The time on the ticket reads approx. 11:15 p.m. He was pulled over and detained right at about 11:00 p.m. --give or take a few minutes. He was only several blocks from his destination and could I possibly argue that obviously he was not blatently obstructing curfew rules. In fact, to the contrary -- had he not been detained for 10-20 minutes, he would have reached his destination prior to, right at, or only 1-2 minutes past curfew. Meaning, obviously he wasn't out blatently breaking curfew rules, etc.?

Finally, is it worth tyring to get this citation amended, fight it, etc? Also, I have attempted by website and telephone to contact the court, however, to no avail in regards to procedures re minors. Does he automatically have driving privileges suspended for this, is he eligible for traffic school, etc?

Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

Thank You,

Crazywithateenager

[That Guy]

I'm only going to post and make a few comments about CVC Section 12814.6, for now...

12814.6

(b) Except as provided in Section 12814.7, the provisional driver's license shall be subject to all of the following restrictions:

(1) Except as specified in paragraph (2), during the first 12 months after issuance of a provisional license the licensee may not do any of the following unless accompanied and supervised by a licensed driver who is the licensee's parent or guardian, a licensed driver who is 25 years of age or older, or a licensed or certified driving instructor:

(A) Drive between the hours of 11 p.m. and 5 a.m.

(B) Transport passengers who are under 20 years of age.

(2) A licensee may drive between the hours of 11 p.m. and 5 a.m. or transport an immediate family member without being accompanied and supervised by a licensed driver who is the licensee's parent or guardian, a licensed driver who is 25 years of age or older, or a licensed or certified driving instructor, in the following circumstances:

(A) Medical necessity of the licensee when reasonable transportation facilities are inadequate and operation of a vehicle by a minor is necessary. The licensee shall keep in his or her possession a signed statement from a physician familiar with the condition, containing a diagnosis and probable date when sufficient recovery will have been made to terminate the necessity.

(B) Schooling or school-authorized activities of the licensee when reasonable transportation facilities are inadequate and operation of a vehicle by a minor is necessary. The licensee shall keep in his or her possession a signed statement from the school principal, dean, or school staff member designated by the principal or dean, containing a probable date that the schooling or school-authorized activity will have been completed.

(C) Employment necessity of the licensee when reasonable transportation facilities are inadequate and operation of a vehicle by a minor is necessary. The licensee shall keep in his or her possession a signed statement from the employer, verifying employment and containing a probable date that the employment will have been
completed.

(D) Necessity of the licensee or the licensee's immediate family member when reasonable transportation facilities are inadequate and operation of a by a minor is necessary to transport the licensee or the licensee's immediate family member. The licensee shall keep in his or her possession a signed statement from a parent or legal guardian verifying the reason and containing a probable date that the necessity will have ceased.

(E) The licensee is an emancipated minor.

(c) A law enforcement officer shall not stop a vehicle for the sole purpose of determining whether the driver is in violation of the restrictions imposed under subdivision (b).

(d) A law enforcement officer shall not stop a vehicle for the sole purpose of determining whether a driver who is subject to the license restrictions in subdivision (b) is in violation of Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 118947) of Chapter 4 of Part 15 of Division 104 of the Health and Safety Code.

(e)

(1) Upon a finding that any licensee has violated paragraph (1) of subdivision (b), the court shall impose one of the following:

(A) Not less than eight hours nor more than 16 hours of community service for a first offense and not less than 16 hours nor more than 24 hours of community service for a second or subsequent offense.

(B) A fine of not more than thirty-five dollars ($35) for a first offense and a fine of not more than fifty dollars ($50) for a second or subsequent offense.

(2) If the court orders community service, the court shall retain jurisdiction until the hours of community service have been completed.

(3) If the hours of community service have not been completed within 90 days, the court shall impose a fine of not more than thirty-five dollars ($35) for a first offense and not more than fifty dollars ($50) for a second or subsequent offense.

(f) A conviction of paragraph (1) of subdivision (b), when reported to the department, may not be disclosed as otherwise specified in Section 1808 or constitute a violation point count value pursuant to Section 12810.

(g) Any term of restriction or suspension of the driving privilege imposed on a person pursuant to this subdivision shall remain in effect until the end of the term even though the person becomes 18 years of age before the term ends.

(1) The driving privilege shall be suspended when the record of the person shows one or more notifications issued pursuant to Section 40509 or 40509.5. The suspension shall continue until any notification issued pursuant to Section 40509 or 40509.5 has been cleared.

(2) A 30-day restriction shall be imposed when a driver's record shows a violation point count of two or more points in 12 months, as determined in accordance with Section 12810. The restriction shall require the licensee to be accompanied by a licensed parent, spouse, guardian, or other licensed driver 25 years of age or older, except when operating a class M vehicle, or so licensed, with no passengers aboard.

(3) A six-month suspension of the driving privilege and a one-year term of probation shall be imposed whenever a licensee's record shows a violation point count of three or more points in 12 months, as determined in accordance with Section 12810. The terms and conditions of probation shall include, but not be limited to, both of the following:

(A) The person shall violate no law which, if resulting in conviction, is reportable to the department under Section 1803.

(B) The person shall remain free from accident responsibility.

.....

(l) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Brady-Jared Teen Driver Safety Act of 1997.

As far as the alleged curfew violation, I think it is pretty clear the 11:00 PM means just that... And although it really depends on what the judge might think (some might let it slide, others might not), and especially for a teenager, being a few minutes late is in fact late. But you are the parent not I.

The license restriction (suspension): A conviction of the alleged 22350 speeding violation (if he is found guilty) will add one point to his driving record. As for the alleged curfew violation, and if he is convicted, that carries zero point therefore it will not count against him as far as a potential suspension.

So unless he has had any other violations in the past, and barring any future violations that he might receive, the single point (assuming he is found guilty of the 22350) will not result in any automatic suspension. However, any future moving violation will send him over the threshold at which point his driving privilege will be suspended and things can and will get worse from there.

The Fine: He has a choice between 12814.6(e)(1)(A) {8 to 16 hours of community service} OR 12814.6(e)(1)(B) {the $35 base fine which after adding Penalty Assessments ends up being $201}

Traffic School: Since the curfew violation is a no points violation it does not qualify for traffic school.

Lastly, and since he is a minor, a parent or guardian will be required to appear with him in court.

If no one else picks up where I left off about the 22350, then I will add some pertinant info about that later.

[That Guy]

OK, here's the rest of what I have...

My question is are there any specific rules/regulations that an officer must follow in order to accurately (or most accurately) determine a "pace" speed.

Generally, and as long as the officer can present Calibration certificates for his vehicles speedometer, then a pace of a few seconds time where the officer is able to track the subject vehicle, and while keeping a set distance apart from it, glance down at his/her speedometer to read his/her speed, that can be considered sufficient enough to deem a pace as an accurate way to estimate the speed.

Typically a pace follows what is referred to as a “visual estimation” of the subject vehicle (and they are trained to, and can do so with a decent accuracy)…

I ask because given the circumstances from the first light he was stopped at to the second light he stopped at, the distance in between seems to be too short to have been "paced" with any sort of accuracy.

Let me twist that around for a minute… He was stopped at one traffic light, and as he approached a second traffic light he realized he had to stop again, right? I'm also gonna give him the benefit of taking his speed down by 5mph… Why was he driving at 60+ in a 50mph zone?

Point is, bringing that reasoning up in court might not serve to prove anything that will favor a “not guilty” verdict. Nor would a “he was in a rush to get home after realizing it was almost 11:00 PM, almost curfew time".

22350.

No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

While a 22350 is the easiest speeding violation to beat, it is my opinion that it might not work that favorably considering the fact that the driver here only possesses a provisional license which might suggest that he lacks the experience to make a determination as to what might constitute “reasonable or prudent” while taking all the factors listed in 22350; especially when he was allegedly exceeding the posted limit by 15+mph.

Keep in mind though that in a 22350 case, the burden to prove the a driver did in fact “endanger person or property” by driving at the alleged higher speed, falls upon the officer.

Do a search for 22350 and you’ll come up with quite a few threads that discuss the several strategies used in defending against such a charge. Once you do that, you can post any additional questions that you might have; otherwise, please let us know how this all works out.

Good luck!

[EWYLTJ]

The 22350 charge may be hard to beat in this case. The burden to show that the speed endangered persons or property is the cop's, but, as per 22351, all the cop has to do is show that he was driving over the posted limit and this danger is assumed. Beyond that, the driver has the burden to show that he did NOT create a danger to persons or property. Even though the driver may have been perfectly safe, his provisional license status will probably make that hard to prove. Emotion and prejudice rule over law in traffic court.

Since the speed was determined by pace, it is likely that the speed trap laws will not apply either.

[crazywithateenager]

Thanks so much to all of you who replied -- your information and insight is appreciated! Obviously, my son messed up and didn't leave himself enough time from when he left where he was, to reach his destination on time. The kicker about this is though that I was out of town for the weekend, his friend's parent was "in charge" and she didn't bother to make sure they were getting home on time, like I always do! Obviously, I will have to just pay the fine, as I agree, if there is not a specific pace law that I can use, it will be his word against the word of the police, therefore, I think trying to fight it will be pointless and a waste of mine, the court and the officers' time.

On a side note though, someone had asked in their reply why he was going that fast. . . He wasn't going that fast -- he was only approx. 5 mph over the posted speed limit. I know this to be true, as the vehicle he drives is older, manual transmission, 4 cyl. and having driven it myself many times -- it takes a good 3-4 miles on a straight away (such as a freeway) to reach its top speed of about 70 mph.

Thanks again,

crazywithateenager!

[EWYLTJ]

Why would you be paying his fine? I thought it was strange that the son was not here asking for help in the first place, but I guess I now see the trend.