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  1. #1

    Question What is Harassment, and How Do You Prove Baiting

    This case is pending in a court in central california.

    In this case, someone got a TRO against a geograpghically confined sick person by baiting by making noise. It is very hard to prove baiting because it was diffuse and spread over a period and witnesses are with the baiter due to complains and conflict of the baited to other advantage takers.

    The baiter used variety of provocative cussing words and in a way that those witnesses who were with him were the only public witnesses. The baited naively used only one, like jackass which others are willing to testify.

    Any smart argument that can dissect the situation for the judge and show him/her that the person was baited than a willing harasser in the sequence of escalation ?

  2. #2

    Question Re: What is Harassment, and How Do You Prove Baiting

    Quote Quoting Mr_save_a_sister
    View Post
    This case is pending in a court in central california.

    In this case, someone got a TRO against a geograpghically confined sick person by baiting by making noise. It is very hard to prove baiting because it was diffuse and spread over a period and witnesses are with the baiter due to complains and conflict of the baited to other advantage takers.

    The baiter used variety of provocative cussing words and in a way that those witnesses who were with him were the only public witnesses. The baited naively used only one, like jackass which others are willing to testify.

    Any smart argument that can dissect the situation for the judge and show him/her that the person was baited than a willing harasser in the sequence of escalation ?
    Is there ANY legal brain capable of explaining this at all ?

  3. #3

    Default Re: What is Harassment, and How Do You Prove Baiting

    Quote Quoting Mr_save_a_sister
    View Post
    Any smart argument that can dissect the situation for the judge and show him/her that the person was baited than a willing harasser in the sequence of escalation ?
    It doesn't matter if they were baited. The order still needed to be followed. Particularly if the baiting was over a period of time, the person could have sought law enforcement intervention, an order of their own, or found other means to address the noise issue.
    Catherine NeSmith
    Executive Director
    AARDVARC.org, Inc.
    http://www.aardvarc.org

    Fave Big Bang Theory site: Sheldon Cooper Fans

  4. #4

    Question Re: What is Harassment, and How Do You Prove Baiting

    Quote Quoting aardvarc
    View Post
    It doesn't matter if they were baited. The order still needed to be followed. Particularly if the baiting was over a period of time, the person could have sought law enforcement intervention, an order of their own, or found other means to address the noise issue.
    The baiting was over a time. The baited called police. The baiter found ways to dodge the police by stationing observers to watch the approach of the police. The police could not witness. Over time it was made to appear as frivolous calls to the police which itself did not want to devote resources to nuisance complains. The baiter escalated by insulting baited in the presence of his allies. The baited insulted back which was witnessed by his allies. The allies of the baiter only gave testimonial declarations against the baited. The baiter has no testimonies available.

    How do you prove innocence to the judge in a civil court ?

    How do you prove that at every step baiter escalated ?

    The baiter put the TRO on the baited using his false/partial witnesses and defense is under duress.

    This is one of the oldest paradigm in human civilization to accuse the victim.

  5. #5

    Arrow Re: What is Harassment, and How Do You Prove Baiting

    I am still awaiting a reply on how you prove who harassed in a sequence of escalations as well as dodges. This is what really happens in real life and the resident expertise here would benefit readers a lot by ideas on this.

    correction previous post:
    The baiteD has no testimonies available.

  6. #6

    Default Re: What is Harassment, and How Do You Prove Baiting

    Yes, it IS what happens every day. Which is why this board and many others all give the same response:

    It doesn't matter if one party was baited into violating the order. They STILL have to OBEY the order. Nothing prevents that party from getting an order of their own - but that's what would need to happen. Without an order from a court controlling BOTH sides, only ONE party's behavior is questionable or actionable.

    It doesn't matter HOW the party GOT the order, if the court found cause to issue the order, it's a moot point.
    Catherine NeSmith
    Executive Director
    AARDVARC.org, Inc.
    http://www.aardvarc.org

    Fave Big Bang Theory site: Sheldon Cooper Fans

  7. #7

    Question Re: What is Harassment, and How Do You Prove Baiting

    There is a misunderstanding here about my question.

    I am not talking of baiting to violate a TRO or RO. I am talking of baiting before TRO. Baiting to escalate conflict or create a conflict by a malicious baiter and his allies to bait the baited and then to create some false and selective evidence to file a TRO against that baited person. Ofcourse, the most effective lie is the one that is close to the truth, complicated, and baiting is spread over time.

    In view of this now, read the first post and think on the legal defense.

    The question is : How you prove that the TRO filer was the baiter and the real harasser and escalator ?

    This is the kind of question whose answer would distinguish an average mediocre lawyer and a competent one.

    Quote Quoting aardvarc
    View Post
    Yes, it IS what happens every day. Which is why this board and many others all give the same response:

    It doesn't matter if one party was baited into violating the order. They STILL have to OBEY the order. Nothing prevents that party from getting an order of their own - but that's what would need to happen. Without an order from a court controlling BOTH sides, only ONE party's behavior is questionable or actionable.

    It doesn't matter HOW the party GOT the order, if the court found cause to issue the order, it's a moot point.

  8. #8

    Default Re: What is Harassment, and How Do You Prove Baiting

    To prove who harassed whom, and who baited whom, the court reviewing the TRO before issuing the RO would have to look at the facts, if it had time. It really depends on the facts that can be brought into the court. Does it not matter if the other party LIED to get the TRO ? Does it not dent that party's credibility during the hearing for TRO to RO ? If the other party was so confident of its case, why would it lie ?

  9. #9

    Default Re: What is Harassment, and How Do You Prove Baiting

    Quote Quoting Mr_save_a_sister
    View Post
    There is a misunderstanding here about my question.

    I am not talking of baiting to violate a TRO or RO. I am talking of baiting before TRO. Baiting to escalate conflict or create a conflict by a malicious baiter and his allies to bait the baited and then to create some false and selective evidence to file a TRO against that baited person. Ofcourse, the most effective lie is the one that is close to the truth, complicated, and baiting is spread over time.

    In view of this now, read the first post and think on the legal defense.

    The question is : How you prove that the TRO filer was the baiter and the real harasser and escalator ?
    You gather your evidence and collect your witnesses and present it to the court. Or better yet, you let your attorney do it on your behalf - bearing in mind that for an RO, the petitioner doesn't need to PROVE that anything in particular happened. The burden of proof to get such an order generally only requires the petitioner to convince the court that SOME level of harassment has occurred, and that given the TOTALITY of the circumstances, that without such an order, it has some liklihood of occurring again. It's not a black and white, guilty or not guilty type of situation. The court has VAST discretion in whether or not to issue such an order, and it can depend on many factors.

    This is the kind of question whose answer would distinguish an average mediocre lawyer and a competent one.
    And you're free to hire whichever level you wish to prepare a defense (but would have been BETTER to have hired one to get an order of your own before the other party beat you to the punch). And again, even WITH an attorney, the BAITING ISN'T THE ISSUE. You can play "the devil made me do it" all day long, but that's not what the court is interested in.
    Catherine NeSmith
    Executive Director
    AARDVARC.org, Inc.
    http://www.aardvarc.org

    Fave Big Bang Theory site: Sheldon Cooper Fans

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