Battery Charge That Was Self-Defense

abstrak · #1 04-09-2009, 09:30 AM

My question involves criminal law for the state of: California

Okay, so here is what happened to me two Friday's ago:

My brother-n-law and another driver got into a fight which I was stuck in between from trying to hold my brother-n-law back. Punches were thrown for a good 10 seconds it seemed (started from the other driver) and for a brief moment they separated. As soon as they did though, the other guy swung a punch at me but missed. I looked at him in surprise and at that time he said, "Oh you mother******s want to jump me!?" And as he said this he was already getting ready to throw another punch at me.

As he stepped toward me, with his right hand about to come at me, I reacted and ducked his punch and threw a right fist at him as well. I knocked him down and once I saw he was disoriented, I didn't do anything else but call 9-1-1 to let them know this guy just attacked my brother-n-law and myself.

To make a long story short with the sheriff's there: I was handcuffed, put in the back of a car, taken to the station (never was I told I was being arrested nor was I read my Miranda rights). Once we got there I asked the sheriff what was going on. He said the following:

"Because [they] weren't there to see what happened and when they did get there, the other guy had the injuries, he had the right to place me under citizens arrest...we are citing you for battery...it will most likely be charged as a misdemeanor."

Once in the station, they took my shots, my finger prints and placed in a holding cell for 6 hours and then released around 6 a.m.

My questions are:

1. Can they arrest me without informing me I am under arrest/citizens arrest?

2. If I was placed under arrest/citizens arrest, can they do this without reading me my Miranda rights? And can he do all of this without asking me my side of the story as to why I hit the guy?

3. How do I prove I was defending myself against this guy with no witnesses other than both families that were there?

-The only thing I have going for me is that I only hit the guy once to get him to stop. The only proof I have with that is the one, and only, injury I have to my right pinky finger.

Sorry for the long thread. That is actually the short version of what happened too. Imagine if I wrote the whole thing...

Please advise though. I would greatly appreciate any and all help. THANK YOU!

cdwjava · #2 04-09-2009, 09:37 AM

Quoting abstrak

1. Can they arrest me without informing me I am under arrest/citizens arrest?

Uh ... what did you think was happening when you were cuffed and stuffed? You were informed about the arrest at the station and then cited out. No foul on that front.

Quote:

2. If I was placed under arrest/citizens arrest, can they do this without reading me my Miranda rights? And can he do all of this without asking me my side of the story as to why I hit the guy?

As for Miranda, 90% of arrests never require this. Miranda is only required when both custody AND interrogation exists. If they interrogated you after you were arrested and try to use those statements against you art trial, your attorney can move to suppress those statements.

The law does not require they conduct a balanced or proper investigation. They SHOULD do so, but they are not required to do so.

However, under CA law they ARE required to accept a private person's arrest (aka a "citizen's arrest"). So, no matter the situation they would have had to accept his arrest.

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3. How do I prove I was defending myself against this guy with no witnesses other than both families that were there?

Your witnesses will be able to testify in court on your behalf. There is also the possibility that the DA will never prosecute this.

- Carl

abstrak · #3 04-09-2009, 01:02 PM

Carl,

Thanks for the reply. As for the first question, they actually cuffed my whole family and had two of them in cars while three of us were on the curb. I thought they were just separating me to get everyone's story straight.

As for the second question, I figured so. There was no interogation at the station.

As for #3, would you happen to know how many of these cases actually get tried?

cdwjava · #4 04-09-2009, 01:08 PM

Quoting abstrak

Thanks for the reply. As for the first question, they actually cuffed my whole family and had two of them in cars while three of us were on the curb. I thought they were just separating me to get everyone's story straight.

That's often part of it.

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As for the second question, I figured so. There was no interogation at the station.

Then Miranda does not apply.

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As for #3, would you happen to know how many of these cases actually get tried?

I couldn't even guess as to a percentage state wide. Not knowing the evidence makes it even harder. If it is merely one side's word against the other, I suspect that it will not go anywhere. It might get filed and the DA might offer a plea to a lesser offense (one they can prove - such as fighting in public, aka 'disturbing the peace'), or they might drop the matter entirely. In my county this would never get filed ... where I have worked previously (San Diego and Sacramento) I'd give it about 50/50 ... hard to say.

- Carl

abstrak · #5 04-09-2009, 02:00 PM

Any idea of what happens at court? (i.e. is this going to be like traffic court?)

Is the judge going to ask if I plea "guilty" or "not guilty" and then decide if I say "not guilty" if it will go to trial?

ashman165 · #6 04-09-2009, 02:04 PM

Quoting abstrak

Any idea of what happens at court? (i.e. is this going to be like traffic court?)

Is the judge going to ask if I plea "guilty" or "not guilty" and then decide if I say "not guilty" if it will go to trial?

If the prosecuting authority chooses to prosecute, then that's about how it goes. You go to court and plead guilty, not guilty or in maybe even no contest and then a trial date gets set up.

cdwjava · #7 04-09-2009, 02:07 PM

Quoting abstrak

Any idea of what happens at court? (i.e. is this going to be like traffic court?)

Is the judge going to ask if I plea "guilty" or "not guilty" and then decide if I say "not guilty" if it will go to trial?

As ashman mentioned, the first hearing will be the arraignment where you will be asked for a plea. If you cannot afford counsel, a public defender will also be appointed or applied for at that hearing, too.

- Carl

gabrieldorman · #8 04-09-2009, 02:34 PM

Let me start by saying this will be nothing like a traffic ticket. It is actually more serious than that. It sounds as though you may be charged with committing a battery. Whether it is charged as a felony or misdemeanor will largely depend on the extent of the injuries involved.

If the case is filed against you, then you will have to appear in court at an arraignment at which time you will want to enter a plea of "NOT GUILTY" because it sounds as though you are claiming this was an issue of self defense and/or defense of others. In any case, you never want to just walk into court and plead guilty. You have nothing to lose by taking time to really understand the situation and explore all your options.

Whether or not the case goes to trial, ultimately depends on if the case can be settled prior to trial by way of dismissal or plea bargain. However, trial is something you don't need to worry about at this stage in the process. You really should consult with a criminal defense lawyer to get some advise as to how you should proceed. Even if you can't afford one, consultations are always free ...there is no harm in getting free advice. A good criminal defense attorney may even be able to prevent the case from getting filed. However, that all depends on the facts of the case.

In any case, it sounds as though there is a lot involved with the incident. I would be happy to speak with you about it if you want.

ashman165 · #9 04-09-2009, 02:40 PM

Quoting gabrieldorman

Let me start by saying this will be nothing like a traffic ticket.

He didn't mean in degree of offense; he was asking if it's procedurally like going to traffic court. As in, I go in, the judge asks me if I want to plead guilty or not. That sort of thing.

abstrak · #10 04-09-2009, 06:42 PM

Quoting ashman165

He didn't mean in degree of offense; he was asking if it's procedurally like going to traffic court. As in, I go in, the judge asks me if I want to plead guilty or not. That sort of thing.

Yes. This is exactly how I meant for it to be interpreted. Sorry if it didn't come out that way.

I actually talked to a criminal defense attorney for free advice and she said that most cases like these get plea bargained to a lesser offense like DTP (which cdwjava said earlier), if it even gets that far, and is only an infraction on my record, like a traffic ticket.

My concern is I don't want anything on my record. I don't even want a record! I would like to plea not guilty but the way I see it...it's the guy's word against mine, my brother-n-law's and my nephew's. I'm not sure how that flies in court?