Dealership Misdiagnosed Car

[camaroman101]

My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: IL

Hey guys, so I brought my car into a dealership and told them the car was misfiring and to diagnose it. They told me the water pump was leaking onto the distributor so it had shorted out. After buying an acdelco water pump and distributor cheaper elsewhere I gave it to them and told them to go ahead with the repairs.

After getting it back the car was still misfiring. So I spent ~900 (500 in parts) for nothing. I am going to take the car back tomorrow to tell them about this and what I think they should do. If they don't want to do any work for free can I take them to small claims court? Any advise on how to proceed will be greatly apreciated.

[zedex]

Not legal advise, but automotive advice from a professional:

Never tell them what to do. This is their job and modern automobiles are nothing like before. A ship, or misfire, can be from any number of sensors such as the MAP, MASS, TPS, IAC, CAP, or any combination of these or more. It could be loss of vacuum or a bad EGR or O2 sensor. It could be a bad spark plug or even a wire that was not fully placed on either the plug or dizzy cap.

By you just telling them what is wrong when you don't know is only going to cause more issues. Remember, the customer is to be satisfied and if you go in saying the TPS is bad, they are going to replace what you asked for. If you are wrong, you're gonna be mad again. Let them do their job and leave them to it. Mistakes on their part is up to them to make right. Mistakes on your part are sen as replacing what yu want replaced, not what should be replaced.

Plus, by telling them what is wrong, you insult their intelligence and they may decide to tell you to either do it yourself or go elsewhere.

Mistakes happen. Auto techs are human, too. Take it to them and explain your situation and that the car wasn't losing coolant, so there was no leak {if thats the case}and it wasn't overheating. By replacing the water pump, there was no change in the original problem and that is what you need fixed without restoring the car.

BTW, not that this is a car repair forum, but a little info about the car would help. And, had you allowed them to install their parts, any warranty issue would be on them. They can warranty their labor but not your parts, so any replacement will be another labor charge for you

[SChinFChin]

I'm not a mechanic, but being a retired car repair company owner, I agree with much of what "Zedex said". I also agree you'll get more info from a "car repair" forum.

It is true that many times folks bring a car to get diagnosed, we charge a diagnosis fee, and tell them what's wrong. Unfortunately, for many problems, especially electronics, often, after repairing the problem on hand, another problem not evident because of the first problem materializes, and then the customer gets upset that there's is now another repair.

Another good example is when a car does not drive straight, we find the customer needs new tires PLUS an alignment. Often, the customer is too cheap, goes for the alignment, and gets bent out of shape when the car still does not drive well, insisting we rip them off telling them they now need new tires. Well, the truth is, if we just sold them the tires, did no alignment, they'll be just as mad saying we sold them tires, now trying to rip them off for an alignment. If we insist on both, they'll go somewhere else, where presumably, an honest person would just sell them "one" thing.

It's not too often we do this, but from time to time, we tell argumentative customers, that we know would be a problem, that we're NOT selling them the tire without the alignment. Often, they think to themselves, they don't make enough on the tires, so they're trying to rip me off with the alignment.

As to going somewhere to buy parts cheap, YEH, we often got customers that do that too, and find to they dismay that when it breaks under warranty, they WE DON'T warranty labor, they have to fight the vendor to get the warranty honored, PLUS pay to have something installed again. This is especially true when they go get "cheap generic" parts. As the old saying goes, the "cheap becomes the expensive".

As this is NOT a car repair forum, we cannot tell you if the dealer should have identified the problem from the "get go". Not to say it'll make you feel any better, my wife insisted for years we go to a certain car repair shop because these guys finally fixed an electrical problem on an Audi she had after going to over "a dozen" repair shops, and still couldn't get fixed. After being in the car repair business, I now wonder if each shop did not diagnose the problem correctly, and after all the other problems were fixed, these guys hit on the right one due to the process of elimination.

A few years ago, a neighor of mine rings my doorbell once a week to borrow my "booster" battery. He had an electrical problem that no dealers, about a dozen, can't seem to figure out. Finally, I saw a brand new SUV in his driveway. He told me that it was cheaper to make the car payments than to fight with the dealers on misdiagnosed repairs.

Finally, I once hired a "crackerjack" mechanic. A good example was a customer went to a dozen places and couldn't get an electrical problem fixed, despite what the diagnostic machines say. He's great in figuring out shorts, and in this case, he noticed the customer had a transmission replaced, and it appears during the installation of the transmission, a wire was caught, stripping off the outer insulation, which explains why the problem was intermittent, and why it was not identified. And despite the "costing books" saying we had to lower the transmission, fix the short, he lowered the the transmission enough, had someone hold it, fix the wire, and bolted it back up, not the recommended way. Anyway, the customer got away cheap, but this is not one of the cases that gets discussed in a "car repair forum".

Now, should this customer get all the money back from all the other repair shops who diagnosed incorreclty, based on what the diagnostic tools say??

[camaroman101]

well at stops the engine will start to shake and it sounds like its going to die out for a few seconds and then it comes back to normal. then sometimes when accelerating from a stop the engine will stumble again and you get no acceleration and then it comes back to normal after a few seconds. i recently checked the engine codes and anly got a code for the A.I.R pump. Watching the live engine data you can tell that the right O2 sensor is bad. Could a bad O2 sensor cause this?

[zedex]

well at stops the engine will start to shake and it sounds like its going to die out for a few seconds and then it comes back to normal. then sometimes when accelerating from a stop the engine will stumble again and you get no acceleration and then it comes back to normal after a few seconds. i recently checked the engine codes and anly got a code for the A.I.R pump. Watching the live engine data you can tell that the right O2 sensor is bad. Could a bad O2 sensor cause this?

Like I said before, this isn't a car repair forum. But, if you know you have a bad component, replace it. Failing to do so only causes problems as nearly every part and every function is computer controlled.

THat said, I would look at testing the throttle position sensor and MAP/MASS sensors AFTER replacing the o2. I fail to see how a water pump could be chosen as the primary offender here. To keep this repair discussion off the board, pm me and I will give you insight as to how all these work together. Legal issues can remain here, however.