Wrong Highway Disqualifies Tickets

[kadrien]

My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: New York.

Alright, it's a simple one. I live in Northern New York state, or as a friend of mine put it "Almost Canada", NY. I got pulled over for doing 47 in a 30 zone because I was speeding up for the end of a speed zone and to go uphill in a fully-loaded Prius.

On the traffic tickets I got that day it clearly says I was driving on "Hwy No 3", on "Hwy Type 2", which the back lists as "State". The location in the supporting deposition reads as "Highway (Type/Name) 2 - STATE SR3". The village I was in is dozens of miles from the closest part of NY State Route 3. Even if he was referencing County Route 3 it's miles away from where I was pulled over. This isn't something like the color of the car being wrong (which it is, my mother's prius is silver, not gray), this is placing me in two locations simultaneously, miles apart. Would this get the tickets thrown out of court? Thanks for any help!

[EWYLTJ]

Question: were you speeding on Hwy 3 at the time listed on the ticket? If the answer is "no", then you are not guilty as charged.

I'm sure a clever way of questioning the cop would be in order (i.e. give him a map and ask him to show the court where you were at.)

[kadrien]

Question: were you speeding on Hwy 3 at the time listed on the ticket? If the answer is "no", then you are not guilty as charged.

I'm sure a clever way of questioning the cop would be in order (i.e. give him a map and ask him to show the court where you were at.)

That's about what I was thinking, but the problem is NY is notorious for ignoring simple facts like self-contradictory tickets.

I made the mistake of asking the DA's office for a reduction, so they have copies of the tickets -- and if they were truly interested in justice and law instead of getting a conviction in every case that crossed their desk they'd have thrown it out by now. I also made the rookie mistake of offering up a letter of explanation... AS A LAWYER SUGGESTED I DO WHEN I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE TICKETS!!!!

To paraphrase him: "Plead guilty and give them some extenuating circumstances."

No guilty plea here yet, just waiting on the DA's office to see what kind of deal they'll offer. If it's cheap enough and no points I'll just pay the extortionist and walk away. Otherwise I'm going to go to court if I have ANY chance of success.

Can you tell I'm nervous?

Thanks for your help.

[blewis]

I notice from a map that County Road 14 is also called "Highway Number 3" -- near Copenhagen -- about a dozen miles from SR3. Is that, by any chance where you were? If that's the case, the "type" may be wrong, but that would be considered a "clerical" error and of no consequence. If it goes to a hearing, the officer will probably clarify the situation. If I were you, I'd hope for the deal.

Barry

[kadrien]

I notice from a map that County Road 14 is also called "Highway Number 3" -- near Copenhagen -- about a dozen miles from SR3. Is that, by any chance where you were? If that's the case, the "type" may be wrong, but that would be considered a "clerical" error and of no consequence. If it goes to a hearing, the officer will probably clarify the situation. If I were you, I'd hope for the deal.

Barry

Copenhagen, NY is a long way away from where I was pulled over. I was north of Canton, NY, if that helps. Thanks for looking into that! Driving directions from where I was to Copenhagen involve a 20+ mile trip ONTO Route 3 along a totally different road from the one I was on. In fact, I'd have had to backtrack to even get on THAT road. Thing is, traffic court isn't about legality, it's about hoovering as much cash out of the citizen as they possibly can, so even a minor error of a few dozen miles will get tossed out most likely. My plan is to wait and see what deal is offered and if I can't swallow it to start requesting documents to fight the radar. I can't get nailed any harder than if I didn't fight, right?

[kadrien]

Would jurisdictional issues come into play on this ticket? My court date has been pushed back to the 4th (Wednesday) for my pleading to it and I'd like to know if I can just call into question that the offense supposedly occured 31.5 miles outside the village limits at the closest. NY law states that jurisdiction extends to the limits of the municipality with an additional 100 yards tacked on. It also says that an Information (a step up from what I have, which is a Simplified Traffic Information) can be amended by addition of a charge alleged by the factual part of the document, whereas the same statute lists a Simplified Information as a separate document and makes no mention of amending it.

By my count there are 4 errors on the speeding ticket; two in the accusatory part (place of occurance and highway number) and the same errors repeated in the supporting deposition in two separate locations.

[kadrien]

Final Update --

I went to court today for my arraignment and the DA dismissed one of the charges against me and offered what they call a "1101" violation instead of the speeding ticket. I weighed the $135 fine/fee and just walking out the door versus another court date, all the hassle associated with it, the costs, and the pain of an appeal. I walked out the door. It really was the best deal possible short of outright dismissal and the $135 seemed better to pay than to fight and possibly lose and get the points, et al.

Final tally --

Speeding ticket for 17mph over = 6 points + $200 in fine + $85 court costs.
1101 violation = $50 fine + $85 court costs + 0 points.

I'm calling it a win and buying the beer! Who's with me?!

[EWYLTJ]

I'm confused... you had two tickets? I thought you just had the one speeding ticket.

I know you are pleased with your outcome, and for that I am happy. However, I hate to see a good defense go to waste. I was hoping you were going to make your argument and win.

[kadrien]

I didn't have my license on me at the time -- unlicensed operator ticket too. I considered it a non-issue as either proof I had a valid license would have cleared my name or not. Under NY law, simply not having the document on me when I got pulled over meant I got a ticket for it if the cop felt like ticketing me. He did. I wasn't counting on wiggling out of it except for the State Route 3 error if the judge wasn't feeling charitable. It was also another reason why I was so anxious to not pay the speeding ticket. I was looking at $600 before court costs which went up to $85 this year and 6 points on my license for the two tickets if found guilty.

Believe me, in one sense I'm actually disappointed. I had dirt that would have upset the apple cart something fierce. The MUTCD website says "[A]n engineering study is required for setting the limit for altered speed zones."... which the village didn't have (I made a FOIL request to the village clerk and she said that there was no record of one done, nor did the village engineer remember one being done)[http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/knowledge/faqs/faq_part2.htm]. NY law says that a village/city/town has the power to set maximum speed limits, but only if they comply with another statute that clearly says the DOT has to give them written permission to do so. The village clerk told me in another FOIL request that no such document existed. Furthermore, the DOT provided me with a a few juicy documents. For example, they threatened to raise the speed limit in a school zone, of all places, if the village bothered them about it again because the speed limit there was artificially low. The village went ahead and, 2 days before the DOT replied to their request, passed legislation lowering the school zone an additional 10mph anyway. This letter is significant because this school zone was on the same highway where I was pulled over and clearly demonstrated that the DOT had authority over the village-imposed limits. On the stretch where the tickets were issued the speed study which the village said didn’t exist that had been done by the DOT showed a 97.5% non-compliance rate with the posted speed. If the DOT put up signs at the "85% [they] routinely post for" as claimed in the letter to the village, it would have been 43mph, which would have rounded up to 45 -- 2mph less than the speed I was ticketed for and the exact margin of error for the radar gun used in the "arrest". All this was predicated on the chance that they'd have either amended the ticket or vacated it and charged me with an information after I got the simplified information I was originally charged with thrown out for the State Route 3 garbage. Now we look at the fact that State Route 3 at its closest is 31.5 miles and in another township and NY law only allows a 100 yard buffer beyond municipality limits and the court didn't have jurisdiction, etc. I had a damn good stew there, I thought.

There was a fly in the ointment. The judge said, and I'm going to quote; "If you were speeding, does it matter where you were?" It should be on the recording they were making at the time, too.

I figured it would save me the trouble of losing my case and then paying and dealing with an appeal. On the plus side, I have a "ruling" case law for use in the future that states explicitly that a simplified traffic information (which something like 99% of all traffic tickets are) cannot be treated as an information (which may be amended under certain circumstances and in certain ways) and cannot be superseded by an information or a prosecutor's information, and that in the state of New York there is no statute for amending a simplified traffic information. Do the math. Since the judge had already said it didn't matter where I was speeding that meant that unless I could prove that I wasn't speeding at all, I was going to be found guilty. More time, more money, more fuss, more wait wait wait. Yeah, I got extorted, but $135 was, to me, worth not having to deal with everything.

If I really wanted to be a jerk I could point out that at no time during the proceedings did he advise me that I could have a lawyer and NY law demands that a judge do that. Everyone else got that notice today, just not me... And yes, it was recorded. He also made me say "please" to get the deal the ADA had offered, too.

[EWYLTJ]

He also made me say "please" to get the deal the ADA had offered, too.

What a jerk. You got screwed and you had to say thank you for it...