Auto Industry Bailout

[lookingfortruth7]

My question involves child support in the State of: Michigan

So the auto industry bailout was declined. What happens if they force the workers to cut their income in half? I am assuming that this is not considered a voluntary pay cut, and that in this economy they are not expecting the parent to find another job making $30 plus dollars an hour?

So.... are they going to base the child support off of the new wage? Also now that they take the children born secondary into account, how is that going to work. I understand that people say you shouldn't have more kids if you can't afford them, but a worker that get's their wage cut in half could not have anticipated this was going to happen when the big 3 were doing well.

Basically the question is can there be a reduction of child support if the wage is cut in half and what about new children?

[BOR]

Basically the question is can there be a reduction of child support if the wage is cut in half and what about new children?

Child support is based on tables of income under state law, if you have reduced income, the man or woman paying CS can ask a court to modify such, yes. You can't pay what you don't have.

[lookingfortruth7]

Thanks for the reply, is there any way to have this put back in child support since it is about that and not a debate?

The reason why I want to know is because I have seen posts that the courts require the NCP to still maintain child support at the amount that they did before because they are capable of earning that much. The only reason that I am capable of earning that much is because that is what the auto industry pays, even if I went back to college to get a degree I doubt that I will ever come any where close to that pay amount again. I am not being underemployed, there is not just a job paying that much out there.

[cdwjava]

This is one of the reasons the industry is in trouble. High labor and legacy costs have contributed to the lack of viability of the auto industry for many years.

If your wages were to be cut in half through no fault or action of your own, I would think that your child support and any alimony could be adjusted as appropriate under state law.

- Carl

[blueeagle]

[Rant] If you factor in Michigan's high cost of living, $30 dollars an hour for an autoworker isn't all that much. And they propose cutting that in HALF? How do they expect people to live on 15 dollars an hour??? Are they nut? Why not cut those extravagant salaries the executives allow themselve? Mikey, back me up here.[/Rant]

[cdwjava]

[Rant] If you factor in Michigan's high cost of living, $30 dollars an hour for an autoworker isn't all that much.

Try living in CA sometime. We have engineers that make 25% more than that and can barely afford to live in cities along the coast.

And they propose cutting that in HALF?

The UAW new workers only make half. They have a two tiered slary system - the old timers can top out at about $28 or $30 an hour while new hires come in at about $14 or so.

And this "half" you keep hearing about is not so much salaries as the hourly cost of the worker (which includes salary, benefits, "job bank", retiree benefits, etc.). Dropping these costs will go a long way to helping an industry that has been hemorrhaging for years. It NEEDS to restructure, and the protections given in Chapter 11 may be the only way.

Why not cut those extravagant salaries the executives allow themselve?

Sure, cut those, too. But, I'll wager those "extravagant salaries" represent a pittance of the total expenditures made by those industries, so even if they worked for free, it would be more of a symbolic gesture than a real benefit to the industry.

Personally, if the industry is going to go under, it might as well go now ... all the estimates I read indicate that this $15 billion will merely keep them afloat for a few months, and that one of them (Chrysler, I think) is in debt to the tune of $62 billion dollars or some such outrageous amount, so staying afloat for a few months - with another loan on top of the others - is sort of pointless. Bankruptcy can help relieve them of some of this debt, giving them a loan and a "car czar" with no legal teeth, will not.

In the end, I don't think the industry will be able to survive as it is now. It might die off and reorganize, but it will come back as something viable. Or, we can nationalize it, and be on the road to real Marxist socialism. Ah, yes, and we've seen the wonders of the socialist paradises of the world, haven't we?

- Carl

[cyjeff]

The real problem, as I see it, is in two parts.

One, there is already an approximate $1,500 surcharge on every car Detroit sells just to cover pensions and the like. Therefore, when you buy from the big 3, what you are buying is of lesser value. Now a bailout means that we pay that surcharge not once, but twice... in the form of higher taxes.

Two, everything I have read is that this is the amount of money to get through the next 30-60 days. What, exactly, is going to change in the next 60 days that will mean that Detroit is no longer in trouble? NOTHING between big businesses and unions works that fast, which means if the government cuts a check now, they will get to cut another in a couple of months...

This is like housebreaking a puppy by giving him a treat everytime he craps in the dining room.

If the automakers and the unions (and, by the way, where are the union leadership's pledges to work for a dollar) realize that the government will bail them out, why would they ever change their practices?

One last question. Everything I have read states that Chrysler, Ford and GM are tied at the hip and if one falls they all fall.

How does THAT happen? How does the loss of a competitor in a hot market make YOU go bankrupt? Seems to me that you would gain a better market share while gaining some nice leverage with suppliers, right?

[cyjeff]

[Rant] If you factor in Michigan's high cost of living, $30 dollars an hour for an autoworker isn't all that much. And they propose cutting that in HALF? How do they expect people to live on 15 dollars an hour??? Are they nut? Why not cut those extravagant salaries the executives allow themselve? Mikey, back me up here.[/Rant]

Let me expound on what Carl said.

Hourly rates are approx $30. Those aren't changing.

however, Toyota in the states pays about $48 addition per hour in benefits (pensions, healthcare and the like)... while the Big three pay around $69 per hour.

That is the point upon which the unions refuse to bend.