Plea Bargains

[zedex]

How do you feel about them? I am not refering to the ones where the party is guilty and getting off lightly, but rather, when the party is innocent and not properly represented, usually a PD. The party is told if you lose, you'll be gone for "so many" years, but if you plea guilty, you'll only get probation".

Its happened to me and I read here where others have done it, too. The process scares the accused into taking a bum deal. So, you sit there and ask, "why not fight it?". Well, if you do, and you lose, you could spend the next 10-15 years wondering why you didn't just take a probation.

In my case, and others, I am sure, I was told by the PD {who only just did read my case} to plead guilty. "Its quicker and easier or you could face a few years", he said. What he didn't say was what the ultimate cost would be-- a pernament record of "bad behaviour".

Do you think that this type of "representation" is proper and just? What would you do to change it? How much time before court should a PD and client have together to go over the case?

[cyjeff]

Plea bargains help our already overcrowded courts manage.

No one puts a gun to the accused's head and says, "admit to this guilt".

[panther10758]

I agree with Jeff no one forces a plea out of you. In fact the judge often asks the defendant if he agrees and understands his plea

[cdwjava]

The taxpayers would not want to pay for a court system where there WERE no plea deals as the costs would be astronomical. Such a system would require far more attorneys, courts, judges, officers, and holding facilities as well as changes in the law to extend "speedy trial" exceptions as the whole system would slog down.

Raise your hand if you want to see your taxes double solely to address a court system that forbids plea deals?

- Carl

[cyjeff]

Further, raise your hand if you want you jury duty to go up by an order of magnitude.

I haven't researched the number of crimes that actually make it to trial, but it used to be around one in ten to one in seven.

[cdwjava]

Further, raise your hand if you want you jury duty to go up by an order of magnitude.

I haven't researched the number of crimes that actually make it to trial, but it used to be around one in ten to one in seven.

I'd say it's much closer to one in twelve to fifteen these days ... but, I suppose it varies a great deal by jurisdiction. Some counties might not file as many cases, therefore, they have fewer to plead.

- Carl

[blueeagle]

Further, raise your hand if you want you jury duty to go up by an order of magnitude.

Thats your patriotic duty.

I haven't researched the number of crimes that actually make it to trial, but it used to be around one in ten to one in seven.

95% of all criminal cases are settled by plea bargaining. Do you REALLY expect me to believe they are all guilty?? We have long suspected at least 10% of the prison population is INNOCENT. Another 20% are overly-charged. We're facing a legal epidemic here! It's time for an investigation!!!

"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." --- Blackstone

[cdwjava]

Thats your patriotic duty.

They won't let me serve on a criminal jury (and am exempt anyway), and I have yet to be called for a civil one.

95% of all criminal cases are settled by plea bargaining. Do you REALLY expect me to believe they are all guilty?? We have long suspected at least 10% of the prison population is INNOCENT.

I doubt it is anywhere NEAR that high.

Oh, and who is "we"?

Another 20% are overly-charged. We're facing a legal epidemic here! It's time for an investigation!!!

What, exactly, is "overly charged"?

If the elements of the offense fit, then the offense is not "overly charged". If someone enters Wal-Mart (in CA) with the intent to steal a pair of shoes, they can be charged with burglary instead of petty theft because that is the way the law is written - it's not being "overly charged".


- Carl

[blueeagle]

I doubt it is anywhere NEAR that high.

I'd say atleast 10%. That's just a conservative estimate. I've heard estimantes as high as 30%. Let's face it, ya'll make mistakes.

Oh, and who is "we"?

Judges, defense attorneys, legislators, criminal investigators, and a few police officers with the guts to defend the truth.

What, exactly, is "overly charged"?

Example: My friends brother was charged with burglary of a habitation, but it turned out the house had not been lived in for over a year. Luckily, the courts realized this and reduced the charge to burglary of a building. See what I mean?

Edit: heres some good reading.
http://www.caught.net/innoc.htm
http://www.brandeis.edu/investigate/innocence/

"A 1996 National Institute of Justice Report indicated that 10 percent of America's two million prisoners may have been wrongly convicted."

MISCARRIAGE OF JUSTICE!!!

[cdwjava]

I'd say atleast 10%. That's just a conservative estimate. I've heard estimantes as high as 30%. Let's face it, ya'll make mistakes.

I think you're way off, but there is no way to prove the issue in any event.

Judges, defense attorneys, legislators, criminal investigators, and a few police officers with the guts to defend the truth.

Then it is incumbent upon those brave and daring souls to come forth and see to it that any errors are not repeated. While i cannot speak for your neck of the woods, I am aware of only one case I have ever been involved in where I came to believe later on that the defendant plead to an offense he did not commit ... but, that was based upon third-hand statements, and not upon the statements of the suspect who I know even today and still claims that he was guilty. Though, I suspect he had more or less "moral" guilt as he DID frequently assault his wife ... only, this one particular time (his second of three arrests for that offense) he may not have done it though he admitted to doing it.

Example: My friends brother was charged with burglary of a habitation, but it turned out the house had not been lived in for over a year. Luckily, the courts realized this and reduced the charge to burglary of a building. See what I mean?

The system worked! That's how it is supposed to happen.

"A 1996 National Institute of Justice Report indicated that 10 percent of America's two million prisoners may have been wrongly convicted."

There are always isolated stories here and there, but that hardly indicates that anywhere NEAR 10% of convicts are "innocent". At most, these stories indicate a localized problem and not anything remotely occurring on a national or even state wide scale.

And, note, that "wrongly convicted" is not the same as "innocent". One can be guilty as sin and still "wrongly convicted" because evidence might have been admitted that shouldn't have been, or because an officer, judge or attorney acted improperly.

- Carl