Failing To Obey Special Traffic Control Markers, Wrongfully Guilty

**undeclaredpunker** · 06-09-2008, 05:37 PM

My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: california

I had court today and was representing myself on a case where i had allegedly made an illegal right turn by not obeying a "no right turn on red" . i had proved there where the officer was located when he allegedly observed me make the illegal turn that he could not see my turn arrow and had photos to prove the matter.

in my closing statements I said alot of things and one of the statements was "your honor i have never been pulled over for a moving violation except this one, and it is clear in my mind that i am not guilty" the judge then looked at my record and said that i had a ticket for not stopping at a stop light and that i had lied to him and that that means that i could be lying in the court room about this case and that i was guilty. however i wasn't PULLED over for the citation, it was mailed to me. the judge didn't allow me to speak after that so i couldn't explain to him the circumstances.

i am 90% sure i would have won the case if the judge wouldn't have said i was a liar

should i ask for an appeal on this case and try with another judge?

**LawResearcherMissy** · 06-10-2008, 04:35 AM

should i ask for an appeal on this case and try with another judge?

On what grounds? You have a semantic argument?

"I never said I never had another ticket, Yer Honor, I said I was never pulled over for one! It's different!"

Not gonna fly.

**BOR** · 06-10-2008, 07:45 AM

Quoting undeclaredpunker

My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: california

I had court today and was representing myself on a case where i had allegedly made an illegal right turn by not obeying a "no right turn on red" . i had proved there where the officer was located when he allegedly observed me make the illegal turn that he could not see my turn arrow and had photos to prove the matter.

Why does it matter if you used your signal??? No right turn on red means just that! Or am I missing something??

**blewis** · 06-10-2008, 08:11 AM

I took OP's statement to mean it was a "right turn arrow" on the traffic light -- but maybe I'm wrong.

Barry

**BOR** · 06-10-2008, 08:36 AM

Quoting blewis

I took OP's statement to mean it was a "right turn arrow" on the traffic light -- but maybe I'm wrong.

Barry

Oh, could be. He does not mention "arrow" though as a directional go??

I took it as state law permits right turn on red, municipality home rule forbids it, but he made the turn regardless??

Have to wait for clarification!!

**cdwjava** · 06-10-2008, 10:32 AM

If the officer knows the cycle of the signals, he or she will know when the right turn arrow (if there was one) is active. For instance, if he sees a left turn arrow from the opposite direction, it is safe to assume that the right turn arrow is not green. Same if the cross traffic from the left is green - the right turn arrow won't be green.

Depending on where you say the officer was, you may well have lost anyway.

BOR, the violation appears to be for failing to obey a traffic control device - the sign that says no turn on red. If there is a right turn arrow (green) then the turn could be made on that ... if there is no right turn arrow, then a right turn could only be made on a solid (round) green light.

- Carl

**EWYLTJ** · 06-16-2008, 04:58 PM

That's a good point Carl, but it is relevant ONLY if the officer offered it into evidence.

In this case, the OP's credibility isn't the issue (it never is as the cop always wins the he said - she said). The issue is that the OP presented material evidence that contradicts the officer's testimony. Unless the officer explained that away, the Court should have made a ruling based solely on the evidence before it. However, the rule of thumb in traffic court is... most judges think that if the officer wrote the ticket, they need to come to a finding of guilty. Traffic court is an absolute sham and most traffic court judges I have seen blatently ignore the law as they beleive there is no consequence in doing so.

So, the answer to your question is "HELL YES" you should appeal. It doesn't cost anything but a bit of effort. Worst case scenario is that you loose the appeal and everything stays as is.

If you do appeal, you have to file a notice of intent to appeal RIGHT NOW! There is a time limit after your trial. Once you file that, then your appeal will be based on judicial error.

Good luck and GET BUSY!!

**cdwjava** · 06-16-2008, 05:03 PM

I imagine the officer's account was entered into the record indicating what he saw and why he believed the OP ran the light. Had the officer not said anything, one would presume that the court would not have found there to be sufficient cause to find the defendant guilty. But, if he has the time and the money for the appeal, that's his choice.

- Carl