Overpaid And Support Obligation Ending Soon

[DoubleDipped]

This is in Pennsylvania:

My child support obligation ends in approximately 8 weeks. I have always been current in my payments (wage attatchment), and never had arrears.

I am currently 6 weeks ahead on payments and have a credit balance with the support office. I have been paying for 17 years without fail.

I called them yesterday about getting my credit balance refunded to me when the support order terminates. They refused and said it was up to me to get the money back from her. The extra money has NOT been released to either of us yet. The support office just holds it until the end, then according to the person I spoke with, they automatically release the entire account, INCLUDING THE OVERAGE to her! They also will not suspend garnishment until the day of graduation.

The overage was caused by two things:

1. Double Dipping. Full Support was withheld from my regular wage garnishment in addition to partial unemployment complensation I have received. (Same amounts came from my employer and unemployment comp for the same pay periods.)

2. Emancipation of previous children on the order. Two of our three children have graduated recently. The most recent was last spring. The overage occured between graduation, and the modification hearing. (Note: I filed in early-APRIL, graduation in JUNE, and hearing was in mid-JULY, modified garnishment started late-JULY)

In the past, when our first child graduated, the exact same thing happened. But...they refunded that money back to me.

Same thing with the unemployment situation...they have always reimbursed me. The unemployment part has been an ongoing problem for 15 years, but they have ALWAYS paid it back to me.

UNTIL NOW...our final year. The person I spoke with called me a dead beat parent, said it was my problem, they DO NOT make refunds, and to take her to small claims court.

I intend to go personally to the support office next week to speak with them.

So, I have three questions:

A. Can they really do this to me?
B. How will I ever recover my money in small claims when my exwife does not have a job? (She receives SSDI which cannot be garnished.)
C. If I win in small claims, can I freeze her bank account? (I know the branch where she banks.)

[Xena]

This is in Pennsylvania:

My child support obligation ends in approximately 8 weeks. I have always been current in my payments (wage attatchment), and never had arrears.

I am currently 6 weeks ahead on payments and have a credit balance with the support office. I have been paying for 17 years without fail.

I called them yesterday about getting my credit balance refunded to me when the support order terminates. They refused and said it was up to me to get the money back from her. The extra money has NOT been released to either of us yet. The support office just holds it until the end, then according to the person I spoke with, they automatically release the entire account, INCLUDING THE OVERAGE to her! They also will not suspend garnishment until the day of graduation.

The overage was caused by two things:

1. Double Dipping. Full Support was withheld from my regular wage garnishment in addition to partial unemployment complensation I have received. (Same amounts came from my employer and unemployment comp for the same pay periods.)

2. Emancipation of previous children on the order. Two of our three children have graduated recently. The most recent was last spring. The overage occured between graduation, and the modification hearing. (Note: I filed in early-APRIL, graduation in JUNE, and hearing was in mid-JULY, modified garnishment started late-JULY)

In the past, when our first child graduated, the exact same thing happened. But...they refunded that money back to me.

Same thing with the unemployment situation...they have always reimbursed me. The unemployment part has been an ongoing problem for 15 years, but they have ALWAYS paid it back to me.

UNTIL NOW...our final year. The person I spoke with called me a dead beat parent, said it was my problem, they DO NOT make refunds, and to take her to small claims court.

I intend to go personally to the support office next week to speak with them.

So, I have three questions:

A. Can they really do this to me?
B. How will I ever recover my money in small claims when my exwife does not have a job? (She receives SSDI which cannot be garnished.)
C. If I win in small claims, can I freeze her bank account? (I know the branch where she banks.)

Call the CSE agency again, this time ask to speak to the supervisor. All states have law or rules regarding return of overpayments, the CSE agency CAN return the overpayment to you. You need to be a "squeaky wheel" and keep going to the higher ups until they give you some real answers.

[DoubleDipped]

Thank you for your reply.

Instead of calling, I will drop in and ask to speak with someone. It's always better to meet and sit down to discuss things anyway.

Like I mentioned earlier, I've had to go in every single year to have the double dipping stopped and get a refund. MOST of the time I get a person who is very courteous and helpful.

Of course I've gotten the ones who look at me and treat me like dirt just because I am a man. (My opinion anyway.) I could tell by the tone of her voice and the words she used that she was one of those "man-hater-types".

At my last modification hearing I had to deal with the same stigma of "Here we go, another man trying to get out of paying his support"...those were the FIRST words coming out of the mouth of our mediation officer. (I was there having our middle child removed from the order since he was 18 and graduated, yet in her eyes I was the villain).

Throughout the entire conference she tried saying and doing things to give my ex wife the upper hand while modifying the order for our remaining child. I would politely interrupt her each time she got way out of line, tactfully disagree, and let her know I wasn't ignorant of how the system works. I could understand if my ex was there alone, representing herself, but that wasn't the case. She even tried telling me it was up to her own "personal discretion" what rules she will and will not go by in calculating support. When she used the words "personal discretion" what she really meant was "personal vendetta".

Non-the-less I got my way on EVERYTHING, and walked out very satisfied.

My lawyer told me "That was very good. You handled everything so well back there. You didn't even need me." And my lawyer is a woman, so I have nothing against women. (Only the ones who come accross as true man haters and think they are in a position to screw someone over.) My lawyer also told me that many people have complained about her and she is surprised that she still even works there.

By the way, I misposted stating that the support office holds the overage and releases payment. It's the State Collections & Dispersement Unit that actually does that, you just need to go through the support office first to get the ball rolling.

Thanks again! (& Sorry about the ranting. Perhaps it would make a good discussion in the Banter Forum.)

[DoubleDipped]

I haven't personally gone to the support office about this yet. But I did make a few phone calls. One was to the Collections & Dispursement Unit. They tell me I have to take it up with the Support Office, because the Support Office people are the ones who are supposed to correct this mess.

They were very helpful and gave me the extension number of the Senior Supervisor at my local Support Office.

In the meantime the Supervisor there has yet to return my phone calls. I've left messages two days in row.

Anyway, I found this >>> https://www.humanservices.state.pa.u...SelectionId=99 while trying to find answers on the Net.

PLAINTIFF PAYMENT PROCESSING In the event that a Domestic Relations Section (DRS) orders a plaintiff to pay costs, refund a defendant for an overpayment or make any other payment through the Pennsylvania Child Support Enforcement System (PACSES), the payment must be handled at the DRS. PACSES does not support plaintiff payments therefore, the SCDU is unable to post this type of payment.

When a plaintiff makes payment at the DRS the DRS worker may take advantage of the Over the Counter (OTC) processing provided by the SCDU. The payment must be posted to the OTC web site by the DRS worker using the defendant’s member ID and case ID if appropriate. A PACSES distribution hold should be placed on the defendant’s case/s so that the receipt may be manually distributed to the correct debt type or refunded to the defendant.

Hmmmm...interesting. So much for the local Support Office telling me that "NO! We do not make refunds". And "NO! We cannot put the account on hold".

That is all I have found so far. Any additional help or advice?

Thanks.

[DoubleDipped]

I still would like some help with this if anyone can assist me.

According to Pennsylvania Code, it appears that I can have wage witholding stopped on certain grounds:

Pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 4348(h), an order for income withholding may be terminated when (1) the support obligation has terminated and the total arrears are paid; (2) the payee cannot be located and it becomes impossible to forward payments; or (3) the result would be unconscionable. The order may also be terminated administratively by the domestic relations section.


Can anyone help with the part that I have in bold type?

Neither (1) or (2) apply but I think (3) might.

I would like to stress that the overpayments were caused involuntarily if that makes a difference.

Can I use the argument that further withholding (and/or releasing the overage to the payee), would result in unjust enrichment by the payee? (Thus making further withholding unconscionable)

Thanks in advance.

[Xena]

I still would like some help with this if anyone can assist me.

According to Pennsylvania Code, it appears that I can have wage witholding stopped on certain grounds:

Pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 4348(h), an order for income withholding may be terminated when (1) the support obligation has terminated and the total arrears are paid; (2) the payee cannot be located and it becomes impossible to forward payments; or (3) the result would be unconscionable. The order may also be terminated administratively by the domestic relations section.


Can anyone help with the part that I have in bold type?

Neither (1) or (2) apply but I think (3) might.

I would like to stress that the overpayments were caused involuntarily if that makes a difference.

Can I use the argument that further withholding (and/or releasing the overage to the payee), would result in unjust enrichment by the payee? (Thus making further withholding unconscionable)

Thanks in advance.

Personally, I think that both (1) and (3) would apply. If the overpayments are at least the amount owed for the remaining weeks, the withholding should be able to be stopped. However, I don't know if the CSE will be willing to do that, but it's worth a try anyway.

[DoubleDipped]

Personally, I think that both (1) and (3) would apply. If the overpayments are at least the amount owed for the remaining weeks, the withholding should be able to be stopped. However, I don't know if the CSE will be willing to do that, but it's worth a try anyway.

Just an update to let you know how this was all resolved. If this thread can help others in the same situation, then I'm glad to provide the following info:

1. Today I went in and filed for termination (something that "the person" I spoke with said was unnecessary).

2. They placed the account on hold effective today (again something I was told they could not do). Wage withholding will continue for the next few weeks, but will NOT be released to her.

3. Upon the termination date, the SDCU will refund to me any overpayments and release to her what is owed, if anything (you guessed it, another thing I was told over the phone will not happen).

4. The wage attachment with Partial Unemployment Comp was vacated (that was a no-brainer).

5. In the very end, should there be a finding that they released to her more than what she should have, they will provide me all the related information to be turned over to magistrate court.

The worker who handled this for me was extremely pleasant, had a smile on her face from the time I walked in 'til the time I left, and assured me that my petition was done 100% correct to wrap this up.

Hope this helps someone else, and thanks for your help as well.

[Xena]

Just an update to let you know how this was all resolved. If this thread can help others in the same situation, then I'm glad to provide the following info:

1. Today I went in and filed for termination (something that "the person" I spoke with said was unnecessary).

2. They placed the account on hold effective today (again something I was told they could not do). Wage withholding will continue for the next few weeks, but will NOT be released to her.

3. Upon the termination date, the SDCU will refund to me any overpayments and release to her what is owed, if anything (you guessed it, another thing I was told over the phone will not happen).

4. The wage attachment with Partial Unemployment Comp was vacated (that was a no-brainer).

5. In the very end, should there be a finding that they released to her more than what she should have, they will provide me all the related information to be turned over to magistrate court.

The worker who handled this for me was extremely pleasant, had a smile on her face from the time I walked in 'til the time I left, and assured me that my petition was done 100% correct to wrap this up.

Hope this helps someone else, and thanks for your help as well.

That is wonderful. It's so nice to see that the system can work properly, and even nicer when a poster comes back and lets us know how it all turned out. Thank you very much.

[DoubleDipped]

Oh, and some more useful information to those with credit balances (overpaid/prepaid etc.):

The rules in Pennsylvania have recently changed regarding the refunding of overpayments. It used to be that they automatically refunded money back to you when you became at least 8 weeks prepaid. That policy has now changed to 4 months prepaid. That is the reason why they didn't handle this sooner. I was able to surpass the 4 month rule because I was prepaid in an amount that covered the order to it's termination date.

Also, make sure you modify your order as each child graduates and is over the age of 18. You have to go in and file for termination for the last child. Termination of the order is not automatic like the one person at the support office told me over the phone...even if the other parent returns an emancipation inquiry providing them with your child's 18th birth date and expected graduation date! So mark your calendars, keep track of your overpayments, and file good and early to recoup your overpayments by having an administrative hold placed on the account.

And one more thing. Never ever under any circumstance give cash or checks to your ex for child support purposes! You will not receive any credit for it. They had a notice posted at the check in window that warns you that "All payments must go through the PSCDU. Any cash or checks given to the plaintiff will be considered as GIFTS and no credit will be given against your account!"