[JLoh1970]

Ohio.

I am currently defending a case against Professional Investments & Finances (NY) who claims I owe them for an old Citibank Card. I believe I settled with Citibank a couple years ago, but that's not really relevant to my question. Anyway, looking at my credit report the same debt is being report by Pinnacle Credit Services (MN).

Is there anything in the FDCPA or anything else that would require these guys to send me some type of proof of who really "owns" the debt?

I see validation and proof is required if I dispute, but does that mean validation and proof they own the debt or validation and proof the debt is legit.

Thanks,
James

[Betty3]

If you believe the information on your credit report is incorrect, ask the credit reporting agcy. to verify it (dispute it).

[JLoh1970]

If you believe the information on your credit report is incorrect, ask the credit reporting agcy. to verify it (dispute it).

Done. But I don't believe they will really put any effort into trying to figure out who owns it. Could be wrong, they say they will let me know something in about 30-45 days.

The question about the FDCPA still remains. Are they required to prove they "own" it.

I mean, I could validate and prove that Tom owes Bill $100, but that doesn't validate and prove Bill sold the debt to me.

[lwpat]

If you are in court you need to check the SOL for your state and be sure to include it in your answer. It is an affirmative defense which means it is waived if you do not put it in your answer. If they are just harassing you print out several copies of a form letter disputing the debt and mail one to the CA and the three CDA's every thirty days. Eventually they will take it off until it is sold to another CA.

Get an unlisted number and send a do not call letter along with the validation letter to the CA.

[jk]

Your debt could be listed under any previous owner of the debt.

Say XYZ Credit Corp loaned you money and you failed to repay. Your debt would be listed under XYZ CC.

Now, they sell it to Collections R Us. The debt will now be listed under XYZ CC for the time period it was theirs and no it will also be listed under Collections R Us. If they sell it to somebody else like Vinnie's Cousins Collections, the debt will be listed under all 3 but it will be for the time period they owned the debt and it should include a final status and disposition of the debt that would reflect what they did with the debt.

Once a creditor sells a debt, it is no longer theirs to report but that does not remove the reporting of the debt while it was their to report.

Regardless of how many owners it has through time, it can still only be listed for the 7 (and 1/2 often) years allowed per the FCRA from the date of the original debt. The subsequent ownership does not extend that date to 7 years for each creditor owning the debt.

The validation required by the FDCPA is validation of the debt itself, not ownership of the debt.

It sounds like the SoL may have run so investigate that but you need to include that in your response to the summons to be able to assert it at trial.

You can also dispuste the ownership of the debt by whomever is suing you and they would be required to prove their ownership in court, or at least to the court before winning a judgement against you.

This also needs to be included in your initial response if you beleive it to be the case.

[JLoh1970]

If you are in court you need to check the SOL for your state and be sure to include it in your answer. It is an affirmative defense which means it is waived if you do not put it in your answer. If they are just harassing you print out several copies of a form letter disputing the debt and mail one to the CA and the three CDA's every thirty days. Eventually they will take it off until it is sold to another CA.

Get an unlisted number and send a do not call letter along with the validation letter to the CA.

Thanks Iwpat. Checked SOL, 15 years in Ohio, so I did not include it as affirmative defense.

Not harassing me, but if the plaintiff doesn't own the rights to the debt can't I just file a motion to dismiss or motion for summary judgment?
On the flip side, if they do own it, I can send the proof they provide me to the credit union to get the other company removed.

I requested proof of ownership of the debt in my "request for production of documents and interrogatories" to which they haven’t responded. I'll bring that up in my pretrial on the 7th of March. Also show the judge a copy of my credit report where some other company claims they own the debt. I suspect the plaintiff was just looking for a default and probably won't even show up though and I'll get a dismissal. Will request one with prejudice should it come to that. But if the judge dismisses without prejudice, I’m really back to square one, trying to clean up my credit.

So really I am still looking for an answer to:

Is proof of ownership of a debt covered by the FDCPA? I understand they have the wording "validate and prove" in FDCPA, but I still don't understand if "prove" means prove they own it or "prove" means the debt existed.

[JLoh1970]

The validation required by the FDCPA is validation of the debt itself, not ownership of the debt.

Thank you!

[JLoh1970]

Thanks for all the help everyone.

I am really going for an Unjust Enrichment type of defense. (Included in my affirmative defenses, along with some others that seemed relevant) Should the plaintiff show up for pretrial with the documentation I requested in my request for production (or should I get it before hand) and the debt looks legit, I'll offer to settle for what they paid for the debt.

Not trying to get out of paying something if I owe, but not going to pay all the BS fees, etc these collection agencies add on.

[jk]

Hate to burst your bubble but unjust enrichment is not a winning defense. Actually it is not even a legit defense since you have no idea what they paid for the debt (and most likely never will as it is irrelevent to the fact you do owe somebody the amount you are being sued for).

According to a few (reputable and decent) debt collectors that post around the net, this is not a viable defense anyway.

and to the BS fees; since when is a cost to collect a debt that you intentionally incurred and apparently failed to pay a BS charge? If you had paid your debts as you agreed to, there would be no "BS" charges but your failure to pay your bills caused the creditor to undertake actions (money spent) to collect the debt. Nobody to really blame for those charges except yourself.

BTW; what makes you think they would even be receptive to such an offer if the debts

looks legit

?

They will simply walk into court and win a judgement for the full amount and then do whatever allowed to collect the judgement all the while allowing the judgement to wreak havoc on your credit report and ability to borrow.

[JLoh1970]

Hate to burst your bubble but unjust enrichment is not a winning defense.

No problem, you can't burst it, only the judge/jury can do that.

Actually it is not even a legit defense since you have no idea what they paid for the debt (and most likely never will as it is irrelevent to the fact you do owe somebody the amount you are being sued for).

I've read quite a bit to the contrary, not saying your wrong but there is a ton of info to the contrary out there.

and to the BS fees;

Maybe some fees are legit (if so I'll work with them on those), but if you think all these companies ALWAYS AND ONLY add legit fee you should get your head examined.

since when is a cost to collect a debt that you intentionally incurred and apparently failed to pay a BS charge? If you had paid your debts as you agreed to, there would be no "BS" charges but your failure to pay your bills caused the creditor to undertake actions (money spent) to collect the debt. Nobody to really blame for those charges except yourself.

First, the only exhibit they submitted and only thing they have ever sent to me is a piece of paper from their company that lists and amount owed. No original creditor, no break down of fees, nothing. I mean this thing is so lacking of anything it would be like me opening MS word and writing jk owes me $1000, then trying to use it in court against you as proof you own me. I am SURE the court is going to require more then what they submitted.

Second, I am not really sure of the debt is legit. I tried to clean up my credit report about 4 years ago. I contacted all the credit card companies on ONE of the reports and settled with them. (one report my score is almost 700, the other not so much due to this one account) I can’t remember if one of the first cards I had was a capital one or a Citibank. I am guesstimating the plaintiff is talking about a Citibank account as that’s what is shown from some other collection agency on my credit report but they have yet to tell me for sure. I was pretty sure I settled something with Citibank quite a few years ago, but maybe it was Capital One. I contacted Citibank and they have no record of me EVER having an account with them. The said they will give this to me in writing if I request it in writing and I have.

Third, I never blamed anyone but myself, but I'm sorry, these dudes are going to have to come up with more then a piece of paper from there own computer saying I owe them money for an old credit card bill before I will give them anything without a judgement.

BTW; what makes you think they would even be receptive to such an offer if the debts ?

They will simply walk into court and win a judgement for the full amount and then do whatever allowed to collect the judgement all the while allowing the judgement to wreak havoc on your credit report and ability to borrow.

Don't know if they'll take a settlement offer or not. Still going to offer if I feel they have a case, right now I don't feel they have a case. If they win, I'll pay the judgement right there. So there won't be much havic.

I'll be suprised if they can show me some evidence of the debt etc that we dont work something out. But again, if we don't, I'll have no problem willing paying a judgement should they win one.