Defending Somebody Who Has Confessed To You

[itsme1]

Hi, I am taking a criminal justice course and one of our discussion questions are, if a client was charged with rape and murder of a child and confessed to you, could you as a defense attorney defend them? My first thought is yes, that is what I am in practice to do. However all classmates say no and argue that a defense attorney that could do that is only in the business for the money, fame, or because they have no morals. I can not imagine that to be right but do not know how to plead my case.

Any input?

(Texas)

[lwpat]

This is a moral issue, not a legal one. You are not required to take a client unless ordered by the court. What happens if you take the case and they confess to you in the middle of the trial? The judge is not going to let you withdraw. And even after they do confess, you cannot tell anyone unless they take the stand and lie. This is one of the situations you are going to encounter if you do criminal defense. The majority of your clients are going to be guilty. Does that mean our legal system should abandon those that are not guilty?

[itsme1]

Thank you.

[aaron]

You can defend a guilty client. Most guilty clients aren't interested in a trial - they simply want a good plea bargain.

You just can't intentionally present perjured testimony. When a client wants to commit perjury at trial, lawyers can face serious ethical issues (how to present the problem to the court without disclosing what the client intends; what to do if the court does not permit them to withdraw; etc.)

[itsme1]

I think my real frustration comes when class mates say that defense attornies are scum and in it for the money. I doubt that is the case and I believe they are in it because that is how our legal system is made up. However I hate to argue a case that I really do not know how to articulate what I am trying to say.
My thoughts are that we are all allowed a defense attorney because those are our given rights and because a person seeks a profession of a defense attorney does not mean he is in it for the money, fame, or because he is scum of the earth.

[itsme1]

So the conversation has switched from "can you defend.." to what kind of scum is the person who chooses to become a defense attorney. I just want these classmates to know my thoughts in that there are a lot of great defense attorneys that are attorneys because they believe in the legal system.

[jk]

don't most people do what they do for the money?

as Aaron stated, the attorney allow a client to knowingly commit perjury but they can still defend a client.

Sometimes it is not a matter of being guilty or not but making sure the state can prove the guilt. That is where the support of the legal system comes into play, not in defending a guilty client.

One attorney I had spoken with specifically would not ask if the client was guilty and requested the client to not disclose that fact to them. That allowed them the freedom to put on a defense based on the merits of the case and not proving guilt or innocence..

If you have noticed, a court does not have an innocent finding, merely not guilty.

I think my real frustration comes when class mates say that defense attornies are scum and in it for the money.

they do get to defend innocent clients too.

[lwpat]

I suggest that you read a copy of "The Innocent Man." I they also have a website:

http://www.innocenceproject.org

Also where do you think the Duke students accused of rape would be right now if not for defense attorneys?

[itsme1]

The link doesnt work, I googled it but their web site is down

[usedbranflakes]

Thank you for fighting for your beliefs and not being a meandering sheep headed to the slaughter. I hope you have the time to read my 4 page missive.
Defense attorneys do not make squat compared to medical malpractice attorneys. Some MM attorneys file cases knowing that their client didn't follow medical protocol BUT knowing that an insurance company will settle for $25k because it will take $50k to defense. Others know it will cost them $30k to prepare the case and will get 40% PLUS COSTS of a $1MM settlement. Some PI attorneys do the same thing; think McDonalds hot coffee. If your classmates want to complain about attorneys and they want to be a Plaintiff's attorney then they need to look at the 3 fingers pointing back at them.

One of the most successful attorneys in Atlanta owns a Gulfstream II and a Boeing 737. How do you think he EARNED the right to buy those planes? Hard work. He is NOT a defense attorney, he is a plaintiff's attorney and represents people against corporations. Again, not a defense attorney. http://www.williegary.com/plane.html

RE: Duke
...those poor boys would be getting raped in prison, punked out, beat up, and sodomized if it weren't for their DA. They would probably become racists because they would HAVE to align with the skinheads or Aryans to protect them from the racial gangs rampant in the NC prisons. Their lives are still ruined, they still have a FELONY arrest, and will always have to answer "yes" to any questions about a FELONY arrest; there is no chance for them to work in the Federal Government and make a high ranking Officer, GS slot, and they have no chance at SES now.

...and now we learn about overzealous prosecutors and "malicious prosecution". Oh, my God, he would not say that someone paid by the state, to represent the people of the state, would ever NOT have a voting citizen of the state in mind! Think again! It's the State's job to convict, regardless of innocence. The judge (paid by the state) or the jury (paid by the state, although a crappy stipend) are the final authority in a trial. Innocent people are convicted every day. The prosecutor gets paid, the defense attorney gets paid (usually a former prosecutor or DA for the county or state, ADA, law clerk for the court or a judge, legal researcher for the court, assistant prosecutor). It's extremely rare when someone becomes a defense attorney right after they pass the bar.

I know what you are thinking:
HOLY CRAP! You meant to tell me that Prosecutors, District Attorneys, law clerks (have to have their law degree), and Assistant District Attorneys become Defense Attorneys? Surprisingly enough, yes.

Yes, that is right. It's rare when a lawyer becomes a lawyer right out of law school. They usually intern or clerk. Many attorneys do not become DAs right out of law school or even after they pass the bar. Many J.D.s spend years in the DA's office as prosecutors before becoming a Defense Attorney.

I know one Defense Attorney in NC that got sick of prosecuting and convicting innocent people because they could not afford an attorney. He defends less fortunate people for lower legal fees and puts on a really good defense for the money paid.

I also know of a Defense Attorney that tells his client they will not represent him/her at trial if the client knows they are guilty. They will, however, work all day long to get a lesser sentence. I was innocent, the officer admitted he was just having a bad day, and the case was dismissed. Had I not had "Mike", my case would have resulted in a conviction.

It used to be that people saying "I'll kick your ass" to someone (hockey game, football game, bar) and getting in someone's face was just disorderly conduct or "fighting words", a misdemeanor. Now it is potentially considered FELONY TERRORISTIC THREATS! That means, with all likelihood, one will lose their job, be barred from picking their kids up at school if another custodial parent is a non-felon, possibly lose their children, never be able to get a decent job ever again, not be able to get insured/bonded for business ownership, etc.
Only a "scumbag" and "money hungry" defense attorney can get it knocked down to what it should be, disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace. ...or even what we should be doing in society...REHABILITATING that person the first time so they don't do it again. I am all for sending someone to anger management, having them pay a fine, do community service, and deferring the judgment if they keep their nose clean for 1-5 years. It's almost like they get a sentence of 1 year of probation where the normal probation sentence might be 3-6 months. Most disorderlies, where I come from, get time served day in the clink, 20 hours of community service, and 6 months probation on the first charge. Deferred judgment is the same sentence minus the formal probation. I think it has resulted in 20% less repeat offenders. If they repeat offend…they get both charges levied.
...but most people would prefer to believe the accusations of the police. IF the police arrest you, you must be guilty, right. The police always tell the truth. Let's bring up Mark Furman. Let's Google the word "testilying" Hmmm... I think OJ killed his ex-wife, but Furman was a f-ing liar and committed perjury. His reward? A huge book deal.
Let’s look at the officer that arrested the lady who had a single glass of wine and was not ANYWHERE NEAR the limit.
http://www.dui.com/dui-library/washi...zero-tolerance
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101968_pf.html
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Dri...133276608.html

I know what you are thinking...
UsedBranFlakes, you are telling me that police lie? Well, yes, yes I am. Not every officer lies, but how would you like to be that one innocent person that gets popped playing designated driver at 3AM and gets arrested because the officer "smells alcohol". Let's say you blow a .00 and they still send the case to court because you failed your SFSTs (65% of people fail them) or you had Lasik or have contacts and you failed your HGN. PLEASE take the time to read the articles at (www.duiblog.com). Please take the time to read this article to open your eyes: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Dri...133276608.html
Yes, D.C. will arrest you for having a 0.00 BAC! Where is a Defense Attorney and College for DUI Defense Graduate when you need them? Oh, that’s right, your classmates became Senators and outlawed Defense Attorneys.
Your defense attorney will know the reputation of the officer that arrested you, their record of honesty in court, and the opinion of the judge. The prosecutor will know this also. HOWEVER, none of this information is part of the discovery process.

Defense Attorneys perform "discovery" and allow you to know the evidence that is presented against you. Imagine if you were a "witch" and didn't have a defense attorney. ...and we think "waterboarding" is bad. ...those "witches" were people drowned in an open court. The Defense Attorneys were undermined in court.

I make good money doing what I do and would love to actually be a missionary pilot flying for MAF, Pilots for Christ, etc. ...but there is only one thing that makes a plane fly.
Let me guess, Fuel, right? No, aircraft can "fly" without fuel - Gliders are an example.
The engine? No, a plane can glide with the engine out.
The Pilot? No.
The wing and the Bernoilli principle, right? Nope.
Money. You can't have a wing, pilot, engine, fuel, or the airplane without money.
I can't fly for charity because I just don't have the money or the sponsorship. So I work and donate money to these causes so that other pilots may fly for these charities. When I am retired I will fly and donate my time.


In closing, it takes money for everything. People get mad because attorneys charge $125/hr or $1000 to spend 5 hours preparing and 2-3 hours representing them at a bench trial. That attorney has to pay for their office, their car, their office equipment, one or two legal secretaries, a receptionist, and maybe a paralegal. Then there are student loans (usually only Bachelor's *MIGHT* be on a scholarship) Grad School and Law School have very few scholarships available.


A note about UBF -
I am not an attorney. I am trained as a police officer and learned enough about being behind the badge that some of my officer friends made me proud, many disgusted me, and some just tried to do their job best they could. I used to perform flight support for counternarcotics missions in the continental US and found that Federal Officers didn't have to lie in court. In regards to them 100% of the folks I flew with made me proud to be a part of their organization. They presented the evidence gathered and let it damn the person. I have also seen Federal Officers tell the truth, which was that a person was innocent but associated in the house. Most officers I knew would have lied about it. The funny thing was the defense attorney told the guy not to take the stand and he refused to not take the stand. He took the stand and his innocence melted right away. The DEA agent didn't know the guy was involved, thought he was telling the truth, but the prosecutor knew that the guy was guilty and charged him. That day the system worked, much to the chagrin of our Felon.