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  1. #1
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    Mar 2006
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    Toledo, OH
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    Exclamation Does Any Form Of Power Of Attorney Have To Be Recorded By The County

    I know that I have been posting a lot of things - - and I seem to keep coming to a standstill on certain things and just can't find out the information that I need online. Thank you to all that have read my posts and given input. No one truly knows the desperation of the mess we have here......

    What I am trying to find out is - Does Medical POA and Durable (financial) POA have to recorded with the County Courts? Once person has Medical POA in a different county - the principal resides in that county. The Durable POA is held by a different person in a different county - - BUT the family homested is in the same county. This person is looking at selling the family homested, evicting a senior citizen living there (45 day verbal notice) and is arranging to have an old inground fuel tank removed per arrangements of sale. Does this person need to have the Durable recorded with the county in order to sell the home?

    Currently both parties that hold POA have notarized papers that were either self drawn or taken of the internet - - no attorney involved! I don't think an attorney would have allowed an 89 year old Alzheimer's patient that coerced into signing the documents - nor would have allowed her to be removed from a nursing home and back into home care where patient has no access to flush toliet or shower facility.....

    Need help

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Ohio
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    Default Re: Does Any Form Of POA Have To Be Recorded By The County

    Currently both parties that hold POA have notarized papers that were either self drawn or taken of the internet - - no attorney involved!

    You don't need an attorney for it to be legal, but it does need to be notorized for it to be legal.

    I don't think an attorney would have allowed an 89 year old Alzheimer's patient that coerced into signing the documents - nor would have allowed her to be removed from a nursing home and back into home care where patient has no access to flush toliet or shower facility.....

    An attorney would not know of this unless HE WAS THE POA. If this is what truely happened, the nursing home is at fault, as they are the ones who are responsible for the person's care. The usually require a medical POA on admission, medical physician assigned for her care, etc. If you feel this person is being neglected, you need to report it to her physician as this could easlily become a guardianship issue. Once someone is diagnosed with Alzheimers, it would be difficult to prove that anything they signed is legal. I am not aware of the medical POA needing to be on file anywhere except the hospital/nursing home etc. If the medical POA is not present at the time of medical necessity, the person becomes a full code and all measures to sustain life will be attempted, regardless of their wishes.

    As far as the transfer of the property, if you feel his DPOA is in question, (if it was obtained after her date of diagnosis) you need to contact the local Probate court immediately to try and obtain guardianship of the individual in question, including stopping the eviction. Courts don't look kindly on taking advantage of senior citizens.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Toledo, OH
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    Default Re: Does Any Form Of POA Have To Be Recorded By The County

    I appreciate your response.
    The nursing home supplied the first form to which her (the principals) grandson signed as a witness - that form was destroyed. The second POA form was pulled offline and notarized by a friend and it is questionable that the notary filled out the form and also coerced into signing by telling her that if she didn't the other daughter (who held durable POA over all) was sending her to a place that she would sit and moan with other people all day (to that effect - original POA holder was attempting to have her mother placed in a facility that specializes in AD/Dementia) Principal is self pay and we feel that the nursing home was trying to keep her there. Principal was taken from nursing home back to her original residence to where her funds are being used to pay bills for someone else and her daily routine is sitting in front of a tv and has no access to flush toliet or a shower. She is unable to get into the bathroom - -and uses a portable toliet in her bedroom. She bathes her self at the kitchen sink.

    And YES - DPOA was obtained over a year after her diagnosis and they just increased her meds for alzheimers as well. She was diagnosised with with Sundowners roughly 8 years earlier which is a form of Dementia. Currently holder of DPOA sees that he isn't doing anything wrong and is moving forward with selling the home. Nothing is on file with the County court to where the home is and it is my understand that it should be in the State of Ohio when it comes to selling of land/property. DPOA has also allowed other party to take control of the principals checkbook to pay the bills that are now split in half once again. Principal is now paying for all groceries, phone bill (which she does not remember how to dial) and gas - - and splitting the rest of the bills.

    Two senior citizens are being taken advantage of - - and something has to be done NOW.
    Money is too tight to be able to pay for a proper attorney - - and I can't locate anyone that could do pro bono either. At least not with this mess.

    Thanks

  4. #4
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    Dec 2007
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    Ohio
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    Default Re: Does Any Form Of POA Have To Be Recorded By The County

    if she didn't the other daughter (who held durable POA over all) was sending her to a place that she would sit and moan with other people all day
    Does this person still have DPOA over all?
    Principal was taken from nursing home back to her original residence to where her funds are being used to pay bills for someone else and her daily routine is sitting in front of a tv and has no access to flush toliet or a shower. She is unable to get into the bathroom - -and uses a portable toliet in her bedroom. She bathes her self at the kitchen sink.
    Here is a link http://medlineplus.nlm.nih.gov/medli...lderabuse.html
    There are lines here that look like they have been crossed. PLEASE CONTACT NCEA
    And YES - DPOA was obtained over a year after her diagnosis and they just increased her meds for alzheimers as well. She was diagnosised with with Sundowners roughly 8 years earlier which is a form of Dementia
    Even more proof that there is an apperance misuse going on. Contact or go in person to the probate court as this needs attention! They can help get guardenship it may only be for a filing fee......It should even be a free phone call.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Toledo, OH
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    Default Re: Does Any Form Of Power Of Attorney Have To Be Recorded By The County

    No, the oldest daughter that was to have Durable POA over all is no longer in the loop.

    The younger daughter and her nephew are now the POA's.

    APS was contacted and are investigating - Heartland which works through Medicare goes out at least twice a week for meds and some PT and has told the older daughter that a social worker was refused and that everything is just fine. Have not heard anything from APS.

    The other night the nephew (which is the oldest daughter's youngest son) called for a "family" meeting. My mother-in-law(the oldest daugther), my hubby (her oldest son) went out to her sister's (youngest daughter) to meet with her and the nephew. By the time my hubby and his mother got out there - they had already polluted his grandmothers head with the fact that they wanted her put away. My hubby walks in and asks his grandmother how she was doing and she had her face in her hands crying that she didn't want to go somewhere that they lock her down! They (younger daughter and nephew) had this woman so emotionally upset by telling her crap that my mother-in-law will not go back out to see her own mother because they have her believing that she wants her put away! This is how ugly it is getting to use an 89 year old grandmother/mother with AD as a pawn.........these people are sick.

  6. #6
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    Ohio
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    Default Re: Does Any Form Of Power Of Attorney Have To Be Recorded By The County

    The younger daughter and her nephew are now the POA's.
    First, you are confusing me between your posts, try and keep them together, please. Secondly, why I'm asking about the previous POA is because the lady with dementia is not LEGALLY able to do so. Here is a better explaination....
    A durable Power of Attorney ends automatically when the Principal dies. As long as you are mentally competent, you may revoke your Power of Attorney at any time by notifying your Attorney-in-fact (in writing) that the Power is revoked and destroying the original Power of Attorney. Otherwise, a Power of Attorney continues in effect indefinitely, unless the document specifies an end date.

    She did not have the ability to change it from what you are saying. IF you have the old one with the daughter that is "out of the loop" ....get her back in the loop.
    social worker was refused and that everything is just fine.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Does Any Form Of Power Of Attorney Have To Be Recorded By The County

    (sorry hit the wrong key)
    Was the Social worker refused because she was part of hearland (refered to by heartland) or was the social worker part of APS? Huge difference here. Heartland could have sent a referal as part of her free care and will go away if they are asked to. However, APS person cant go away, they have to investigate. Its exactly like a CPS with parents are turned in for child abuse. They don't just go away. The difference being they are checking on adults.
    This sight might be of use to you.
    As I said before, get to probate court! They will have a HECK of a time proving the POA to be valid in her condition. (dementia does NOT come on over night).
    http://olrs.ohio.gov/asp/pub_Guardia...sp#protective2

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Toledo, OH
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    Default Re: Does Any Form Of Power Of Attorney Have To Be Recorded By The County

    I am truly sorry for making this confusing! A lot of what has happened and what is happening just doesn't seem right! I will try to clarify for you if I can.

    The oldest daughter had Durable POA over everything with her mother. The youngest daughter and nephew had taken the POA's away from her this last month. Only because the older daughter wanted her moved to a facility that specializes in Alzheimer/Dementia care. The younger daughter wanted her back home with her. The mother/grandmother was diagnosised with Sundowner's about 7 years ago and with Alzheimers in Sept. of 2006. The nursing home the mother was in did not honor the older daughter's request of having her transferred but helped the younger daughter gain Medical POA and was to keep her there in the nursing home. (mother is self pay) On the 8th 9r 9th of this month, the younger daughter removed her mother from the nursing home back to her home. The nephew that took over Durable POA of finances turned the check book back to her to pay her bills. We got the County APS involved because of the condition in the home because that is what landed her in the nursing home to begin with. Not totally sure how Heartland got involved but they are doing a service for Medicare and agree that she needs more than just other caregivers coming out. And I believe that Heartland offerred the social worker and it was refused by both the mother and the daughter. APS stated that they have an open investigation (as of last week).
    The nephew that holds the financial POA has told his mother (who resides on her mother's family homestead) that she has 45 days to vacate the property because he is selling it.
    This is where I asked IF the person that holds this POA has to have it recorded in the county court to where the home is located. And as Friday - nothing has been recorded and it is my understanding that in order to sell property that it has to be recorded with the County court.

    There is a lot of underhanded crap going on and the two of them that hold the POA's do not see anything wrong with how they are going about things.

    Thanks for bearing with me

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Ohio
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    Default Re: Does Any Form Of Power Of Attorney Have To Be Recorded By The County

    The oldest daughter had Durable POA over everything with her mother. The youngest daughter and nephew had taken the POA's away from her this last month
    I understood that much. What I don't think your understanding is that I hear you, and you are correct. The POA CAN NOT BE TAKEN AWAY from the oldest daughter. If it was, how did that happen? Because the bad notary signed papers?
    Only because the older daughter wanted her moved to a facility that specializes in Alzheimer/Dementia care
    Smart move, oldest daughter had mom's best interest in mind. Not sure why she got out of the picture.
    The nursing home the mother was in did not honor the older daughter's request of having her transferred but helped the younger daughter gain Medical POA and was to keep her there in the nursing home. (mother is self pay
    This makes no sense at all. It would have made more sense to try and keep the patient there as she was a self pay. NH are for profit. They gain nothing by encouraging anyone to leave. They are however required to keep records. They also have a staff physican on board. Someone to give orders (they even need an order for tylenol). They would not be allowed to release someone without his okay. Going back to getting the physician involved. This probably won't be the same physician for the past years but someone who is in charge just at the nh.
    We got the County APS involved because of the condition in the home because that is what landed her in the nursing home to begin with.
    Keep them involved. Call everyday and when you don't get an answer, get the operator to call the supervisor, until you get an answer.
    Not totally sure how Heartland got involved but they are doing a service for Medicare and agree that she needs more than just other caregivers coming out. And I believe that Heartland offerred the social worker and it was refused by both the mother and the daughter.
    More than likely thur the NH upon discharge. They have to provide the family with options upon dc from the facility. This could also come in the form or meal on wheels etc. The social worker probably came by way of recommendation of the NH via heartland. Also make the phone call to heartland and tell them that there has been a report made to APS. Notify APS that she has been given an eviction notice.
    it is my understanding that in order to sell property that it has to be recorded with the County court.
    The recording you are refering to takes place once the property has been transfered. You will have to protest it, by then you'll be out of luck.
    This is why I've been telling you to get to probate court. Find the website for the Court of Common Pleas, Probate division, of the county that grandma lives in. They can help put a stop to everything the nephew is doing better than you or I can. Make sure that they know that the nephew gave her an eviction notice.

    P.S. Now that I'm combining the two posts...If the notary works at a place where being a notary is part of her job (like a bank) I would notify them that you have filed a complaint with the Ohio Bar Association. But then again that just me.
    Please keep me posted as to how this turns out

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