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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    9

    Default U-Turn On Red Light Before Intersection In Arizona

    I was just pulled over for failing to stop at a red light.

    What I did and thought was not wrong, which may be wrong apparently, was come to an intersection and did a u-turn before entering the intersection. I never entered it or crossed any of the cross walk or intersection lines.

    Any way outa this or was I in the wrong?

    I told the officer I didn't know that even if you didn't enter the intersection it was still wrong but he really didn't care.

    This is the intersection and the black line is the path my car took.


  2. #2
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    Dec 2007
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    9

    Default Re: U-Turn On Red Light Before Intersection [ARIZONA]

    Also it was at night (1030ishpm) and there where no cars except for the cop probably 200ft behind me before I did the uturn

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Seattle
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    Default Re: U-Turn On Red Light Before Intersection In Arizona

    In Arizona, ARS 28-645 states (in part):
    Quote Quoting 28-645
    [V]ehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown.
    Apparently, you failed to come to a complete stop and wait for a green light before making the u-turn.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    9

    Default Re: U-Turn On Red Light Before Intersection In Arizona

    Yes but I never entered or had the intention of entering the intersection?

    I don't get it? Where is before defined? I stopped before it then turned before I got to it without ever entering the intersection.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: U-Turn On Red Light Before Intersection In Arizona

    Here are the two questions you need to answer:

    1) Were you facing a "steady red signal"?

    If "no" then skip question #2, you haven't done anything wrong. If "yes", answer #2

    2) Did you stop "before" entering the intersection?

    If "no", you're guilty, if "yes", you're innocent.

  6. #6
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    Dec 2007
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    9

    Default Re: U-Turn On Red Light Before Intersection In Arizona

    Thanks for the reply, I did stop before the intersection, this is what the ticket says.

    28-645A3A "Failed to remain standing/stopped for a red signal"

    My question is, does this imply that he admits I had stopped but failed to remain stopped?

    I know I stopped, but how would the judge see this? Cause I know it will be my word against a cops.

    Also do you know of any documentation that could support this/ I am having trouble finding any solid info.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    1

    Default Re: U-Turn On Red Light Before Intersection In Arizona

    Question: I have noticed many motorists that make U-turns at intersections while the light is still red. Is this legal in Arizona, or in the Phoenix area?

    Answer: A motorist is allowed to make a U-turn on a red light if the vehicle does not enter over the crosswalk or stop bar while proceeding into the U-turn. No U-turns are allowed at intersections if signs are posted "No U-turn on red" in the state of Arizona.

    For example, the only motor vehicle that may have the physical capabilities to perform a U-turn at most intersections on a red light that would not enter the crosswalks or cross the stop bar would be a motorcycle.

    This question was answered by Sgt. Mike Ferrara, of the Surprise Police Department's Support Services Unit. Every other week, members of the agency will answer public-safety questions. Send questions to lily.leung@arizonarepublic.com.



    So if you actually did not cross those lines "into" the intersection your turn was perfectly legal. Hope you managed to fight this one.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    2

    Default Re: U-Turn On Red Light Before Intersection In Arizona

    Answer: A motorist is allowed to make a U-turn on a red light if the vehicle does not enter over the crosswalk or stop bar while proceeding into the U-turn. No U-turns are allowed at intersections if signs are posted "No U-turn on red" in the state of Arizona.

    For example, the only motor vehicle that may have the physical capabilities to perform a U-turn at most intersections on a red light that would not enter the crosswalks or cross the stop bar would be a motorcycle.

    This question was answered by Sgt. Mike Ferrara, of the Surprise Police Department's Support Services Unit. Every other week, members of the agency will answer public-safety questions. Send questions to lily.leung@arizonarepublic.com.
    Unless the sergeant can provide a reference to the ARS code that states this, I would suspect his statement to be incorrect.

    ARS 28-601 defines an "intersection":

    8. "Intersection" means the area embraced within the prolongation or connection of the lateral curb lines, or if none, the lateral boundary lines of the roadways of two highways that join one another at, or approximately at, right angles, or the area within which vehicles traveling on different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict. If a highway includes two roadways thirty or more feet apart, each crossing of each roadway of the divided highway by an intersecting highway is a separate intersection. If the intersecting highway also includes two roadways thirty or more feet apart, each crossing of two roadways of the highways is a separate intersection.
    The violation you received is for this statute:

    28-645
    3. Red indication:

    (a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c) of this paragraph, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown.
    ...
    There is nothing mentioned about crosswalks and stop lines. As long as you didn't enter the intersection, as defined in ARS 28-601 (which is usually beyond the crosswalk), you are not guilty of breaking this specific law.

    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/Arizona...s.asp?Title=28

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    LA LA Land
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    Default Re: U-Turn On Red Light Before Intersection In Arizona

    By the way, make note that the original question that started this thread is over 16 months old...

    Quote Quoting mk2000
    View Post
    As long as you didn't enter the intersection, as defined in ARS 28-601 (which is usually beyond the crosswalk), you are not guilty of breaking this specific law.

    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/Arizona...s.asp?Title=28
    So by your statement there, you can block the crosswalk while waiting for a red light to change.

    And that is wrong. The intersection includes the crosswalk therefore you must stop (or not cross) before the first line that defines the crosswalk.

    Quote Quoting mk2000
    View Post
    3. Red indication:
    (a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c) of this paragraph, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown.
    There is nothing mentioned about crosswalks and stop lines.
    Well, that's because you cut and paste a small portion of the entire code section.
    If you would read (b) & (c) you would see "crosswalk" as well as "intersection":

    28-645
    Red Indication:
    (a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c) of this paragraph, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown......
    (b) The driver of a vehicle that is stopped in obedience to a red signal and as close as practicable at the entrance to the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no crosswalk, then at the entrance to the intersection, may make a right turn but shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal. A right turn may be prohibited against a red signal at any intersection if a sign prohibiting the turn is erected at the intersection.
    (c) The driver of a vehicle on a one-way street that intersects another one-way street on which traffic moves to the left shall stop in obedience to a red signal but may then make a left turn into the one-way street. The driver shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at the intersection, except that such left turn may be prohibited if a sign prohibiting the turn is erected at the intersection.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: U-Turn On Red Light Before Intersection In Arizona

    By the looks of the picture, he could have made a U turn without entering the cross walk. Having said that, that's the strangest looking intersection I've ever seen. Also, it looks "doctored" to me.

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