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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    3

    Default Excessive Force and Possible Abuse of Authority

    An incident occurred not too long ago that has me questioning how the officer handled this incident.

    My juvenile child (17 y.o.) was with a friend who was looking for a car since his was in an accident. They stopped off at a lot next to a convenience store where they saw a small car for sale and decided to check it out. My son was driving. They got out of his car and were looking at the car for sale. The side window was broken and my son opened the car door to see the mileage on the car. When they realized the mileage was high, they decided to leave. He and his friend both got in his vehicle, and my son started to back the car away when an officer pulled up behind him flashing his lights. At this point, the officer got out of his car, stood behind his vehicle door and started yelling PUT YOUR HANDS UP, PUT YOUR F***ING HANDS UP! GET OUT OF THE F***ING CAR! My son and his friend didn't know WHAT was going on, remained seated in his car and they put their hands up. They both told me they thought the officer had pulled his gun because of the way he was screaming "put your hands up."

    They then said that he came running up to the vehicle and tried to yank the driver's side door open. The door doesn't work from the outside. At this point, the officer was yelling at my son and asked him if he was trying to steal the car - my son told him NO. The officer asked my son "What were you doing in the car then?" and my son told him he was looking at the mileage. The officer laughed at him and said "yeah, I never heard a more stupid excuse in my life!" This officer told my son that the owner of the vehicle could have him arrested for car theft because his fingerprints were on it. My son told me that the Officer also went back to the vehicle for sale and inspected it for anything missing. He asked my son if he broke the window on the car - my son told him NO. He asked if my son was going to steal the stereo in the car - my son told him NO. My son said that the officer said to him that he thought he needed backup and called for another police officer. The first officer asked my son if there were any weapons (guns or knives) in the car that he should know about - my son told him NO and even told the officer he could check for himself. The officer took my son's credentials and when he came back he tells my son "Well, you're lucky because I already knew that window on the vehicle was broken." He told my son that he was going to call his parents and then let my son and his friend go.

    This officer DID call my home, but by then I already knew about the incident because my son called home to tell us about it. When the officer called, I spoke with him. He told me that my son was SITTING in the vehicle and he thought he was going to steal it. (My son told me that he NEVER sat in the vehicle, but opened the door and looked in.) I asked the officer if he questioned my son about breaking the vehicle's window. I had to repeat the question because he did not answer the first time. When he finally did answer me he said that he had asked him that question. I asked the officer why he would ask that question if he already knew the window was broken and he told me "because I wanted to see if he was lying." I asked him, How would you know he was lying if the window was already broken? This is when the officer started to get a little testy with me.

    I told him I had another question for him and asked him if he pulled a gun on my son. This is when he went absolutely beserk over the phone! He was SCREAMING in my ear "I DIDN'T PULL ANY F**KING GUN!" and a whole lot of other things I couldn't even understand because he was yelling so loudly! I thought he was TOTALLY out of line and to be heard I had to yell myself. I demanded he give me his Badge Number more than once and when he finally realized what I was asking for .. HE HUNG UP ON ME! Needless to say, I never got his badge number!

    From there I immediately called the police department he was affiliated with and told them I wanted to file a complaint against the officer. The officer's supervisor was on another line so he had to call me back. When he did I told him what I knew and told him how RUDE and OBNOXIOUS this officer was and how he was yelling at me over the phone. His supervisor told me that the officer told him that "I" was the one that started yelling. I told his supervisor that was NOT how it was. I told this cop's supervisor that the officer started yelling when I started questioning HIM. His supervisor insisted that he knew the officer well and "didn't think he would use that kind of language." I told the supervisor "Well, I'm telling you he did!" He also told me that my son could be arrested for saying that this officer pulled a gun!

    My questions are these: Was this incident an abuse of authority? There was no cuffs, there was no arrest, there was only harassment. Then when this "officer" called ME, he was absolutely out of line, treating me with the utmost disrespect, yelling AND cursing. I now feel like they're trying to turn this whole incident around and place blame on my son by threatening to have him arrested. I'm absolutely FLABBERGASTED and feel that not only was my son treated abusively, but I was, too! Where do I go with this? Who do I talk to? The police in the state I live are KNOWN for stepping out of bounds and abusing their authority - even to the point of shooting people in the back (yes, that case was in the News). If this officer truly felt my son was stealing the car, why didn't he arrest him? CAN they actually have my kid arrested for saying he thought the officer pulled his gun? What are the laws in the State of Arizona concerning an officer of the law refusing to give you his badge number? What is my recourse to this kind of abuse?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,141

    Default Re: Excessive Force/Abuse of Authority?

    Quote Quoting Layla
    My questions are these: Was this incident an abuse of authority? There was no cuffs, there was no arrest, there was only harassment.
    Someone inside a car with a broken window (previously broken or not) is enough to justify a detention and an investigation.

    Then when this "officer" called ME, he was absolutely out of line, treating me with the utmost disrespect, yelling AND cursing.
    That certainly sounds out of line.

    Where do I go with this? Who do I talk to?
    An administrator - a lieutenant or above. Don't talk to the officer's immediate supervisor.

    You and your son should go TO the department to lodge a complaint. AZ has a written complaint procedure, I believe. So to get things started you would have to fill out some paperwork.

    The police in the state I live are KNOWN for stepping out of bounds and abusing their authority - even to the point of shooting people in the back (yes, that case was in the News).
    An incident does not make all the police guilty. The police in AZ are not "known" for being out of line ... you may certainly be justified in assuming that certain officers are frequently in trouble, and that some agencies have more than their fair share of problems, but assigning guilt to all officers for the acts of a few is not fair either. It would the same if I were to say that "parents are KNOWN for supporting their kids even when their kids are crooks." It's an impression, and an opinion, but hardly universally held - and certainly not able to be proven.

    If this officer truly felt my son was stealing the car, why didn't he arrest him?
    Because after he investigated further he found that there was insufficient probable cause to make the arrest at the time.

    CAN they actually have my kid arrested for saying he thought the officer pulled his gun?
    If they can show that your son made a false personnel complaint (if he does) they can likely file it with the DA. However, this is extremely rare.

    What are the laws in the State of Arizona concerning an officer of the law refusing to give you his badge number? What is my recourse to this kind of abuse?
    Contact the agency for a personnel complaint.

    You can always fork out for an attorney ... but I don't think there is any money in this and certainly not enough to get an attorney interested in taking it on for an apology or a dressing down of the cop if he was seen to be out of line.

    Try going over the sergeant's head.

    - Carl

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Excessive Force/Abuse of Authority?

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    CAN they actually have my kid arrested for saying he thought the officer pulled his gun?
    If they can show that your son made a false personnel complaint (if he does) they can likely file it with the DA. However, this is extremely rare.
    So are you saying that in order for them to do that an actual WRITTEN personnel complaint has to be filed? Or is it possible for them to do it just from my phone conversation with the supervisor?

    You can always fork out for an attorney ... but I don't think there is any money in this and certainly not enough to get an attorney interested in taking it on for an apology or a dressing down of the cop if he was seen to be out of line.

    Try going over the sergeant's head.

    - Carl
    Please don't think I'm looking for monetary compensation here. That is the farthest thing from my mind. The unethical behavior of this officer is what got me. They're there to "serve and protect," not harass, violate rights, and treat people like criminals. I always thought it was "innocent til proven guilty," and plain and simple, this cop did NOT make my son or me feel that way AT ALL.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,141

    Default Re: Excessive Force/Abuse of Authority?

    Quote Quoting Layla
    So are you saying that in order for them to do that an actual WRITTEN personnel complaint has to be filed? Or is it possible for them to do it just from my phone conversation with the supervisor?
    I am not in AZ so I do not know the details of their law on this matter. However, AZ laws with regards to personnel complaints have been fashioned by the same people as ours so I imagine the laws are similar. If that is the case, then when a complaint is made you and your son will be asked to sign a document acknowledging that you understand if a knowingly false complaint is made against an officer you can face criminal charges.

    I'm not entirely certain of their procedures. I only know that much of it is said to mirror CA law.

    Please don't think I'm looking for monetary compensation here.
    Never meant to imply that. Only that an attorney is one way to force an issue to be dealt with. Nothing like a letter from an attorney to get command staff riled up. But, it can be costly.

    The unethical behavior of this officer is what got me.
    To be fair, he may have been dealing with a different set of facts or perceptions than you. He witnessed the events - you had the events interpreted through your son. Should he have lost his temper? No. Does it happen from time to time? Sure it does. I am a very mild mannered kind of guy but even I have let my verbal temper get the best of me once every couple of years.

    I always thought it was "innocent til proven guilty," and plain and simple, this cop did NOT make my son or me feel that way AT ALL.
    That's actually the court's disposition - not the cop's. His job is to try to find out what's happening. Sometimes it takes bluster and B.S. Most people lie to us, so we have to compensate by trying alternative methods to pry information loose. Sometimes it works, sometimes it makes us look naive, and other times it makes us look like Neanderthals. Much depends on the training and experience (and maturity) of the officer.

    I think that if you arrange for polite and professional sit-down with a lieutenant or above, you can probably get some measure of satisfaction. Believe it or not, we DO like to know when our people get out of line. It is better to correct behavior early on than to have to fire someone or deal with a lawsuit later.

    - Carl

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    117

    Default

    This cop had no skills.....you can conduct a proper investigation as under the scenario all cops should have but without being unprofessional. You scream and use profanity as part of command prescence when dealing with dangerous, unresponsive hard core armed thugs....

    I can't tell you how many of these criminal cretins I ran into as a teen who never did anything wrong.

    These thugs so spoil the reputation of legitimate, professional cops....and that has to stop, so fiel a complaint, but tape record every interaction with the department, as they are usually part of the problem.

    I love the way you interrogated the cop about the broken window things, brilliant line of questioning. You dismantled then demolished him!

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