Why do Fathers Have to Pay Child Support?

[Neal1421]

Tell me where it is written that a fetus carries the same weight as a conscious individual?

My friend used to joke with me saying that "you are only a swift kick away from solving all your problems" Meaning that I should kick the wench that bore this abomination.

I would never consider doing such a thing though, basically because I am a very moral man and it is a part of the woman's body. If she wants to keep it she can keep it but that I should not be held responsible for any costs other than what an abortion would entail if I did not want the child.

This isn't the 1400's anymore, we have advanced technologically to the point where we can control the outcome of a pregnancy using medical abortion with virtually no risk and very little reprocussion. Why not take advantage of that fact?

Are you serious??? You are a "very moral person" however you don't want to be responsible for the child that you may have helped create. Give me a break!!!

[elorei]

I think most of you are missing his argument.

It is not about what is morally right or wrong.

It is simply about the woman having 100% choice over the matter.

A woman can decide to abort, or keep the child. The man has no choice over the matter, last i checked. So if one of you guys goes out and gets a girl pregnant, she can abort it, and you just have to live with it. She could instead decide to keep it, and you just have to live with it.

If both parties are involved in making the fetus, why dont both parties have say in the decisions made for the fetus?

I think that was his point. I could be wrong though.

[Neal1421]

I think most of you are missing his argument.

It is not about what is morally right or wrong.

It is simply about the woman having 100% choice over the matter.

A woman can decide to abort, or keep the child. The man has no choice over the matter, last i checked. So if one of you guys goes out and gets a girl pregnant, she can abort it, and you just have to live with it. She could instead decide to keep it, and you just have to live with it.

If both parties are involved in making the fetus, why dont both parties have say in the decisions made for the fetus?

I think that was his point. I could be wrong though.

The OP is the one that brought up the whole moral issue, I just addressed it.

He had the choice when he had sex with her. He should have worn a condom or not had sex at all if the is such a bad person as he decribes in his other post. That was his choice, bottom line.

[elorei]

The OP is the one that brought up the whole moral issue, I just addressed it.

He had the choice when he had sex with her. He should have worn a condom or not had sex at all if the is such a bad person as he decribes in his other post. That was his choice, bottom line.

Are you saying it wasnt also the woman's choice? If he didnt rape her, they both made a choice to have sex. Yet the woman makes all the choices now, the man has no say in anything at all now.

That is the bottom line.

edit:

I think the Ntional Center for Men put it well:

"More than three decades ago Roe vs. Wade gave women control of their reproductive lives but nothing in the law changed for men. Women can now have sexual intimacy without sacrificing reproductive choice. Women now have the freedom and security to enjoy lovemaking without the fear of forced procreation. Women now have control of their lives after an unplanned conception. But men are routinely forced to give up control, forced to be financially responsible for choices only women are permitted to make, forced to relinquish reproductive choice as the price of intimacy."

[Neal1421]

Are you saying it wasnt also the woman's choice? If he didnt rape her, they both made a choice to have sex. Yet the woman makes all the choices now, the man has no say in anything at all now.

That is the bottom line.

Yes, they did both make the choice, and when a man makes the choice to have sex he should consider the fact that it may possibly result in pregnancy and if it does, he has no choice in the matter after that fact. It is not his body.

He does have a choice either have protected sex or don't have sex at all, and even with a condom he should keep in mind that they are not 100% effective.

This can and has been debated on so many levels, there is no reason to continue with this discussion.

[elorei]

there is no reason to continue with this discussion.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this point. I find it a very good topic for discussion, especially with the pending lawsuit with Dubay.

[Just Breath]

I think most of you are missing his argument.

It is not about what is morally right or wrong.

It is simply about the woman having 100% choice over the matter.

A woman can decide to abort, or keep the child. The man has no choice over the matter, last i checked. So if one of you guys goes out and gets a girl pregnant, she can abort it, and you just have to live with it. She could instead decide to keep it, and you just have to live with it.

If both parties are involved in making the fetus, why dont both parties have say in the decisions made for the fetus?

I think that was his point. I could be wrong though.

I think he made his point, which was pointless. If it is not an issue of morality or ethics, what is it? It's not a question of law.....since there are NO LAWS supporting his argument, as he was obviously aware since his initial post did not even pose a real question.

[elorei]

What if it were the other way around, though?

What if the man had the legal right to FORCE the woman to abort, or FORCE her to keep the child? (think pre 1970s america, or pick at random one of many third world countries)

That is exactly the case for men, men just cant carry the child. Should one half of the equation receive all of the rights, while the other half get zero? Is that what everyone is saying? So much for equal rights of the sexes, then. How can anyone say they are for equality then ask for special treatment?

As for the "NO LAWS" part, well, before Roe v Wade, there were no laws for a woman's reproductive rights, either. Didnt make it right, or less about the law.

Forced child support is geared 100% against the male of the equation, this it seems we agree on. No one yet has refuted the fact that men have ZERO rights when it comes to a pregnancy. I think the OP's question was : Why is this so?

[Just Breath]

A woman can decide to abort, or keep the child. The man has no choice over the matter, last i checked. So if one of you guys goes out and gets a girl pregnant, she can abort it, and you just have to live with it. She could instead decide to keep it, and you just have to live with it.

If both parties are involved in making the fetus, why dont both parties have say in the decisions made for the fetus?

AT the time the man and women decide to have sex, they should already be aware of the choices available to them if there are any consequences from their actions. The man's only choices are....(1) to abstain from sex; (2) take responsibility for himself in protecting against unwanted pregnancy; or (3) only have sex with women whom he deems worthy to "share his genetics".

[elorei]

AT the time the man and women decide to have sex, they should already be aware of the choices available to them if there are any consequences from their actions. .

I am not questioning this, of course people should go forward only with the consequences in mind. My question is: why does the law give 100% of the post conception choices to a woman, *AND* levy a huge financial burden on the man in addition?

You agree with me that the man AND the woman choose to have sex, why does the woman make EVERY choice after that point?