A California Rolling Stop

[Littlemamalisa]

Hello,
While driving through my neighborhood I was pulled over by one of two motorcycle cops that were sitting in a residents driveway (hiding from plain view). He said that I rolled through the stop, which I believe is not true.
He was in such a hurry to get back to his hiding spot, he did not even ask me for my registration. He asked me for the year of my car and proceeded to write the ticket. As it turns out I was wrong about the year of my car so the ticket is incorrect in that respect. Should I bother goiong to court to fight this. The way it all took place seems so shady. BTW, I went back to take a photo of the way that they were sitting on a residents property.

[turbowray]

Hello,
While driving through my neighborhood I was pulled over by one of two motorcycle cops that were sitting in a residents driveway (hiding from plain view). He said that I rolled through the stop, which I believe is not true.
He was in such a hurry to get back to his hiding spot, he did not even ask me for my registration. He asked me for the year of my car and proceeded to write the ticket. As it turns out I was wrong about the year of my car so the ticket is incorrect in that respect. Should I bother goiong to court to fight this. The way it all took place seems so shady. BTW, I went back to take a photo of the way that they were sitting on a residents property.

It is not against the law for them to hide, and they may have had the residents permission to hide there. I would not bother fighting it, but it is always up to you.

[blewis]

Since they were "hiding" in a place you could not see them, it's also possible they could not see YOU clearly, as well. I'd go back, go to the place they were hiding, and take some pictures from THEIR point of view. If you can show that it was possible for you to have stopped (at a place they might not have seen you -- say, three feet BEFORE to stop line), and then when you finally came into view, you would appear to have rolled through the stop, it's possible that you might get off.

Take three sets of pictures to court, one for the judge, one for the prosecutor, and one for you. Show the picture of the officers and then show the intersection from that viewpoint. If your pictures are clear and convincing, you might get a dismissal. It's also arguable that, since there were two of them, they may have distracted each other. It's certainly worth a try, IMHO.

Good luck,
Barry

[turbowray]

Good second opinion!! That is the great thing about a legal forum, is to get many outputs. Good luck poster!!

[chuckycheese]

I would also suggest that you not even mention the fact that the year of your car was written down incorrectly; it really makes no difference and will only be a irritating distraction. Barry's ideas are good ones and it's probably best to stick to arguments that may show you were not in violation of the law.

[jasonsmith]

Good second opinion!! That is the great thing about a legal forum, is to get many outputs. Good luck poster!!

Yeah, it is also good to use more than one forum. Right?

[turbowray]

Yeah, it is also good to use more than one forum. Right?

Smart alleck lol!

[cdwjava]

Since they were "hiding" in a place you could not see them, it's also possible they could not see YOU clearly, as well.

However, chances are they were positioned where they could see the limit line - not necessarily the driver.

If you can show that it was possible for you to have stopped (at a place they might not have seen you -- say, three feet BEFORE to stop line), and then when you finally came into view, you would appear to have rolled through the stop, it's possible that you might get off.

Not too likely. Stopping three feet before the line would not be complying with the section which says:

22450(a) The driver of any vehicle approaching a stop sign at the
entrance to, or within, an intersection, or railroad grade crossing
shall stop at a limit line, if marked, otherwise before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection.

There is no indication in case law (that I can find) or statutory law that indicates a stop PRIOR to the limit line is complying with the statute.

- Carl

[blewis]

Stopping three feet before the line would not be complying with the section which says:

22450(a) The driver of any vehicle approaching a stop sign at the
entrance to, or within, an intersection, or railroad grade crossing
shall stop at a limit line, if marked, otherwise before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection.

There is no indication in case law (that I can find) or statutory law that indicates a stop PRIOR to the limit line is complying with the statute.

That's very true, Carl. However, I've seen intersections where, if you do, indeed, stop at the line, you cannot get a good view of oncoming traffic, due to shrubs, trees, signs, etc. Besides, there are MANY stop signs that do not have a "limit line", in which case the "before entering" clause controls.

I still think it's worth taking a look, taking some pictures, and making the argument. You may lose, but then you're no worse off than you are now, unless you want to take the traffic school option.

Good luck,
Barry

[cdwjava]

That's very true, Carl. However, I've seen intersections where, if you do, indeed, stop at the line, you cannot get a good view of oncoming traffic, due to shrubs, trees, signs, etc. Besides, there are MANY stop signs that do not have a "limit line", in which case the "before entering" clause controls.

I am hard-pressed to recall a single stop sign where there is neither a limit line painted on the ground or a marked crosswalk. In those instances where no limit line exists, few officers conduct dedicated stop enforcement unless they are looking solely for someone who does no stop at all.

Note that our section reads that if the line is not marked that the stop must occur: "... before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection."

And, for crosswalk:

"275(a) That portion of a roadway included within the prolongation or
connection of the boundary lines of sidewalks at intersections where
the intersecting roadways meet at approximately right angles, except
the prolongation of such lines from an alley across a street."

Thus, the driver would have been obligated to stop at or about the edge of the sidewalk or the curb - generally much further into the intersection than a marked crosswalk or limit line.

Obstructions are why people should stop at the limit line and then, perhaps, inch their way forward for a better view.

- Carl