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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Default Can You Refuse to Let the Police Take Mugshots and Fingerprints

    My question involves police conduct in the State of: Anywhere. Do I have the Right to refuse to allow a police officer to take my fingerprints, and photograph me, under the concept of due process? What I am asking, in other words, is IF I have the Right to not offer the State any evidence which may be used against me in court, does that right include not providing them any evidence of my identity? Now I realize that this type of behavior may get one sent to Guantanamo Bay, and that it would not be recommended, BUT... legally, what are State agents permitted to do, IF I reserve and exercise my right not to provide ANY information which may tend to criminate me in any criminal, civil, or administrative hearing (such as allowing them to take my prints, photo)?

  2. #2
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    Jul 2010
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    3,397

    Default Re: Fingerprints, Pictures, and Violation of Due Process

    In what context? If you are under arrest, no you have no right to refuse being photographed or fingerprinted.

    Quit the drama and theatrics. Such things will not get you sent to Gitmo, unless of course it is a terrorism related investigation. Then all bets are off.

  3. #3
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    Jan 2006
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    27,031

    Default Re: Fingerprints, Pictures, and Violation of Due Process

    how can your photo incriminate you? The cops can still see you even if you pretend to be invisible.


    The fingerprint issue is a bit different although you do not have the right to refuse to provide fingerprints when booked.

    Here is a California case concerning fingerprints:

    http://law.justia.com/cases/californ...h/100/572.html

  4. #4
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    Feb 2013
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    Default Re: Fingerprints, Pictures, and Violation of Due Process

    Okay, I read the case on the link you sent, and very early in the case the following was written, and I quote verbatim:

    "Identity was a key issue and, without the exemplar, the prosecution was unable to lay an adequate foundation to show that the Anthony Glenn Virgle, whose prints were displayed on a "known print card" and whose prints matched the latent print [100 Cal. App. 4th 574] left at the scene of the crime, was the same person as the Anthony Glenn Virgle who was present in court."

    Doe s this not go to show that by providing his fingerprints, voluntarily or otherwise, that he was giving evidence against himself? If "the prosecution was unable to lay an adequate foundation to show" ANY FACT, then wouldn't requiring an accused to provide evidence of that fact not violate his Right against self incrimination?

    Are you stating that when a prosecutor needs evidence to convict an accused, they can simply REQUIRE the accused to provide it? I mean, since allegedly "Identity" was a major issue in this case, what in the world would require someone to "identify" themselves or any part thereof as evidence that can ONLY be used AGAINST them? Are you saying that we do NOT have the Right to refuse to provide (what in this case was OBVIOUSLY) evidence against ourselves?

    Can you elaborate?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Are you saying that once I am under arrest, I have a different set of Rights than when I am NOT? Can you explain this to me?

  5. #5
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    Jul 2010
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    Default Re: Fingerprints, Pictures, and Violation of Due Process

    If the accused is arrested, they MUST cooperate with the booking process. In the old days, failure to do so would result in the person being forced to comply. I don't know if that still happens or not.

    Fingerprinting and photographing during booking are about having an accurate record of the arrestee's intake and stay at the Graybar Hotel, and to a lesser extent to identify if the person has any outstanding issues.

    If the prosecution or police need fingerprints from a suspect who has not been arrested, they need a warrant, court order or the ability to get them in another legal but warrantless way. Pictures are easy since the suspect could be photographed anytime they are in public.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Fingerprints, Pictures, and Violation of Due Process

    What makes you think that the accused can't be compelled to provide EVIDENCE (fingerprints, blood test, DNA, etc.).
    The constitutional protection is against TESTIFYING against one self. The courts have not extended that to being forced to present yourself for physical examination.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Fingerprints, Pictures, and Violation of Due Process

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    the accused can't be compelled to provide EVIDENCE (fingerprints, blood test, DNA, etc.).
    The constitutional protection is against TESTIFYING against one self.
    Now, there flyboy, this may challenge Your belief set, and no doubt is a wicked paradigm shift ...

    But ..
    Wouldn't You agree that voluntarily providing physical Evidence, is indeed, Testifying against oneself ...??

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    Quote Quoting J. Alfred Braun
    View Post
    Now, there flyboy, this may challenge Your belief set, and no doubt is a wicked paradigm shift ...

    But ..
    Wouldn't You agree that voluntarily providing physical Evidence, is indeed, Testifying against oneself ...??

    The 4th Amendment also protects against unreasonable seizure of their persons
    Soldal, 506 U.S. at 69: "the right against unreasonable seizures would be no less transgressed if the seizure of the house was undertaken to collect evidence, verify compliance with a housing regulation, effect an eviction by the police, or on a whim, for no reason at all."


    Under the Fourth Amendment, law enforcement must receive written permission from a court of law, or otherwise qualified magistrate, to lawfully search and seize evidence
    United States v. Mendenhall, 446 U.S. 544, 551, 64 L. Ed. 2d 497, 100 S. Ct. 1870 (1980

  8. #8
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    Jun 2013
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    Default Re: Fingerprints, Pictures, and Violation of Due Process

    Supreme Court just ruled that they can even take a DNA sample when you are arrested for a serious crime. As far as fingerprints are concerned, they are the method which the F.B.I. uses to establish your identity and criminal history and each time you get arrested they will be checked against your previous prints to minimize identity theft, mistaken identity, and assign the arrest to the right suspect.

    I suppose you could refuse the picture, but standing or lying on the floor, awake or passed out, they will probably get their picture... Same goes for the prints.

    I suggest you pick and choose your battles wisely

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fingerprints, Pictures, and Violation of Due Process

    Quote Quoting SnglOfcrDad
    View Post
    Supreme Court just ruled that they can even take a DNA sample when you are arrested for a serious crime. As far as fingerprints are concerned, they are the method which the F.B.I. uses to establish your identity and criminal history and each time you get arrested they will be checked against your previous prints to minimize identity theft, mistaken identity, and assign the arrest to the right suspect.

    I suppose you could refuse the picture, but standing or lying on the floor, awake or passed out, they will probably get their picture... Same goes for the prints.

    I suggest you pick and choose your battles wisely


    I suggest you quit posting to old threads.

    You're welcome
    An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise - Victor Hugo

    Do not microwave grapes

  10. #10
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    Jun 2013
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    Default Re: Fingerprints, Pictures, and Violation of Due Process

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    I suggest you quit posting to old threads.

    You're welcome



    This thread is valuable to an uncountable number of people who will find it from a search and want as much information as possible.The more information we can gather on a subject the better. This is not just about helping the original poster.

    Surly?

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    My house was broken into, an officer arrived , she started taking finger prints of the doors and windows. she wanted my finger prints to cross reference the prints she had taken, i said i would rather not and felt very awkward about the whole thing, as i have had a few gatherings and did not want my guests finger prints taken, she said, "Why what have you been up to?" i said nothing , she said "Well your not planning anything are you?" i said "of course not", somehow she twisted my mind, got hold of my hand and forced it onto the ink i was actually fighting against her actions to push my hand onto the pad. she said "dont worry i will not put your prints onto the system they are only for cross refrencing the prints i found" Eventually she called me up on the phone to say all prints were unknown. not a nice experience. i was only young at the time. had that happened now...

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