Right on Red vs Left on Green

[SomePerson]

My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Pennsylvania

I was making a right turn on red (permitted at the intersection). A driver turning left on a green light turned too soon and cut into my lane, almost causing an accident. We both honked our horns believing the other to be at fault. Question is: who actually would have been at fault? Should I have yielded to his bad left turn, or should he have stayed in his lane?

Crude illustration:

[jk]

by your drawing, the driver turning left would be at fault as he was not in his driving lane. That is the cause of the accident, not the person turning right.

[That Guy]

This is strictly based on your drawing, even with as skewed and/or biased it may be on your favor...

While I might agree that in its entirety, his turn appears to be a "bad left turn"... Mainly on the tail end of it where he crossed over the center double solid yellow lines. Although it could be argued that he began the turn in a lawful manner and therefore his entry into the intersection, having been made on a green indication, was made properly.

As for your right turn, it is nothing to be proud of; it would not qualify as a legally proper right turn or a "good right turn""... In fact, you started it in a questionable manner, and no, not from the stand point of a legal right turn on red...

Statutory support:

§ 3331. Required position and method of turning.

(a) Right turn.--The driver of a vehicle intending to turn right shall approach the turn and make the turn as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

(b) Left turn.--The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left shall approach the turn in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of the vehicle. Whenever practicable, the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection and so as to leave the intersection or location in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered.

Your Right Turn: the approach to the right turn appears to have been made form the left half of the roadway, and certainly way off from being as close as practicable to the right hand cur or edge of the roadway, meaning, you should be just barely off of the solid white line marking the right edge of the roadway. The turn itself took you farther into the intersection and possibly closer to the other vehicle at or near the point of potential impact illustrated whereas, again, you should be as close as possible to the solid white line marking the right edge of the roadway.

His left turn appears to have started in a lawful manner, pretty close to the left edge of the roadway, and in comparison, it was made closer to the left edge of the lane, through the left of the center portion of the intersection (to avoid colliding with vehicles turning left from his opposite direction) and although he finished over the yellow solid lines, he is still closer to the leftmost edge of the roadway than you were to the right edge of your roadway as you completed your turn.

If we were to score this by points awarded for several elements of each drive's turn, he would have the edge in the way he turned. But even without that, or even if you had performed better and were able to tie him, he still would gain a greater edge in scoring over you by virtue of this statute:

§ 3112. Traffic-control signals.

(1) Green indication.--

(i) Vehicular traffic facing a circular green signal may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign at such place prohibits either such turn except that vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left, shall yield the right-of-way to other vehicles and to pedestrians lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk at the time the signal is exhibited.
(ii) Vehicular traffic facing a green arrow signal, shown alone or in combination with another indication, may enter the intersection only to make the movement indicated by the arrow, or such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time. Such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

(3) Steady red indication.--

(i) Vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, or if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown except as provided in subparagraph (ii).
(ii) Unless signing is in place prohibiting a turn, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal may enter the intersection to turn right, or to turn left from a one-way highway onto a one-way highway after stopping as required by subparagraph (i). Such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

You did not specify whether he had a circular green or a green arrow, but either way and as far as right of way, he was "lawfully within the intersection", i.e. he had full and clear control of the intersection since he had a Green indication and since he started his left turn in a lawful manner (or at least by measure, more lawful than yours). You on the other hand, were required to stop, and wait, which you did, you then checked the crosswalk for pedestrians, cleared that, checked the intersection for vehicles and regardless of who started his turn first, with him having the green indication he had the right of way -in other words owned free and exclusive use of the entire intersection or at least the path that he will be taking, and with you being far into the intersection because your turn was made from the center rather than from the right edge, you interfered with his movement.

Had you collided, this too would imply less fault on his part and more on yours...

Now imagine this: What if he was making a U-turn, he turned on green, you turned on red, he happened to collide with you... Who's fault would it be?

Assuming there are no signs prohibiting a U-Turn, it would be YOUR FAULT! He had the right if way!

[SomePerson]

For the record, the drawing is very crude and only meant to illustrate the general scenario - that I was in my lane, whereas the driver turning left was not in his. It was not meant to illustrate how close either car was to either side of the lane. Some clarifications:

• I was much closer to the right side of the lane than the illustration suggests. The curb is rounded at the corner, and I was forced far enough to the right that my tires went over the curb (which is, thankfully, almost level with the road). At that point I was as far to the right as possible without hitting the signs at the corner. Even doing so, we still would have collided if he had not also swerved right.
• It would be physically impossible for him to cross over the double yellow lines in such a way without turning completely into the wrong lane, as they aren't painted all the way up to the intersection.
• I had already creeped well beyond the stop line to see further down the road and was proceeding over the crosswalk when he arrived at the intersection. The crosswalk is just about in the intersection, as shown in the picture below.
• He had a solid green light, not a green arrow.

But what I'm gathering from this is that it doesn't matter how bad the left turn is, I would have to stop immediately and yield. Will be good to know for future reference. Thank you.

[jk]

just so you know;

I disagree completely with That Guy. The other guy had to have cut the corner quite short to force you onto the sidewalk. I still stand by what I originally said.