- "Improper U-Turn" Ticket in New York

[ae123]

My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: NY

I was driving on a country road with one lane in each direction (and no real shoulder, explained further below) in Monticello, NY and attempted to make a u-turn.
Since I was driving a large mini-van, I veered to the right before making the u-turn to allow me to make the the u-turn in one motion.
A State Trooper stopped me before I even crossed the line and ticked me for violating NYS 1160e - improper u-turn.
The law states as follows:

"U-turns. U-turns shall be made from and to that portion of the
highway nearest the marked center line. Where more than one lane of a
highway has been designated for left turns, U-turns shall be made only
from the lane so designated that is adjacent to the marked center line."

I feel that since I was driving a large mini-van and there was only one lane, and no real shoulder, I needed to veer rightward before making the u-turn or otherwise I probably wouldn't make it in one motion. The above law would apply only if I made the u-turn from the shoulder or from the right lane of two lanes. In my case I needed to veer rightward somewhat. Also, since there was only one lane and no shoulder, how far could I have been from the middle line anyway?
Keep in mind that I never actually executed the u-turn, as I was stopped by the Trooper before crossing the middle line.

My question is, do I plea bargain and accept a parking ticket or something similar, or should I go before the judge with the above argument and try to get the ticket dismissed?

P.S. In case you're wondering how I veered right if there is only one lane and no real shoulder, the answer is that even in a one-lane road, there is always approximately 2-3 feet between the vehicle and the side of the road and between the vehicle and the middle line.

I just double checked on Google Maps Street View and there is a white line on the right side of the road with approximately 2 feet past it before the grass.
Perhaps I veered over that tiny "shoulder" (if that's what it is called) in order to execute my u-turn.
Even so, considering that there is only one lane and no "real shoulder" - and I was driving a large mini-van, don't I have a point?
I would attach a picture of the road, but apparently I'm unable to.

Please help!
Thanks so much!

[That Guy]

My question is, do I plea bargain and accept a parking ticket or something similar, or should I go before the judge with the above argument and try to get the ticket dismissed?

Well, lets see...

The law states as follows:

"U-turns. U-turns shall be made from and to that portion of the highway nearest the marked center line. "Where more than one lane of a highway has been designated for left turns, U-turns shall be made only from the lane so designated that is adjacent to the marked center line.

OK, so if we split that into its two elements we get the following:

First it describes what appears to be a one lane road (two lanes in opposite direction): "U-turns. U-turns shall be made from and to that portion of the highway nearest the marked center line.

Second it describes what appears to be a road with more than one lane designated for left turns, and in that case: U-turns shall be made only from the lane so designated that is adjacent to the marked center line..

Clearly, the first situation matches your description.

I feel that since I was driving a large mini-van and there was only one lane, and no real shoulder, I needed to veer rightward before making the u-turn or otherwise I probably wouldn't make it in one motion.

The law that you posted does not make an exception for a large mini-van (besides, how could it be large if its mini ). And who ever suggested that a U-turn must be made in one movement?

The above law would apply only if I made the u-turn from the shoulder or from the right lane of two lanes.

No, the above law applies under any and all circumstances. You must make the left turn or the u-turn from the leftmost portion of the roadway. You admit to veering right prior to starting your turn, meaning you did not follow the requirement set by that code section. But even if it only applies to a u-turn that is made from the shoulder, here is what you added:

P.S. In case you're wondering how I veered right if there is only one lane and no real shoulder, the answer is that even in a one-lane road, there is always approximately 2-3 feet between the vehicle and the side of the road and between the vehicle and the middle line.

Actually, I wasn't wondering but since you added that in, what you stated in the previous quote becomes applicable then. Simply because you do admit that there were always approximately 2-3 feet between the vehicle and the side of the road and between the vehicle and the middle line and by you veering right from that point, you then had 4-6 feet on your left and away from the center line and therefore you were in violation of the requirement under NYS 1160e - improper u-turn which requires you to start your u-turn from as close as practicable to the center line, not 4-6 feet away!

But wait, you weren't done veering yet...

I just double checked on Google Maps Street View and there is a white line on the right side of the road with approximately 2 feet past it before the grass. Perhaps I veered over that tiny "shoulder" (if that's what it is called) in order to execute my u-turn.

So lets add another 2 feet to the distance you were -perhaps- away from the center of the road, placing you approximately 6-8 feet away from where you are required to be prior to initiating the u-turn.

Even so, considering that there is only one lane and no "real shoulder" - and I was driving a large mini-van, don't I have a point?

Nope... Actually, you just rambled yourself into a complete and unquestionable admission of the charge you were cited for. And...

I would attach a picture of the road, but apparently I'm unable to.

No, no... You don't need pictures... Your description, by itself would sink your case for you...

You do state that you never actually made the u-turn; that the officer stopped you before you... Before you started it, in the middle of it, you had almost finished making it but he made you back up??? What happened there and how did he stop you?

[ae123]

You do state that you never actually made the u-turn; that the officer stopped you before you... Before you started it, in the middle of it, you had almost finished making it but he made you back up??? What happened there and how did he stop you?

Thanks for helping, though I was hoping that I'd be considered right.

Apparently, as I was veering to the right (to execute the U-turn in one motion) the Trooper tried passing me up on my left (something I think was wrong on his part).
Hence, when I turned to the left we would have collided. We both braked and stopped. I was now on a 45 degree angle (my front facing NW and close to the divider lines, my back facing SE and close to the right side of the road) while he was on the left of the back of my van. He then backed up, turned on his lights, and made me pull over to the right and issued the ticket.

What I still don't understand is why I violated the law, if under the circumstances (one lane, no real shoulder, mini-van) it would be considered normal to execute a U-turn the way I did. Wasn't the law intended to stop U-turns from right-lanes, shoulders, or unreasonable distances from the divider lines?

As for your question about large-mini (), a Chevrolet Astro mini-van is bigger than a regular mini-van and is more like a small truck.

By the way, you seem very knowledgeable. Are you a Traffic Lawyer?

[That Guy]

Thanks for helping, though I was hoping that I'd be considered right.

Actually, you're not... And you are lucky though. Because this does in fact represent a perfect demonstration in how to make a proper turn and why. So this is indeed, the classic... Typically, we -for example, speed- we know its illegal but we still do it. So when we get cited, pfffft, we haven't learned much.

I"n this case, you're actually clueless (no disrespect intended). You commit a violation because of some misconstrued or misunderstood requirement, but when is all is said and done, you learned (or, I should say "will learn") the exact reason why you were wrong (unless you want to continue to act stubborn).

Look up the proper way of making a right turn under New York law (or simply pulling over to park) is to do so by signaling our intention to turn, approaching the right most edge of the roadway, slowing down, checking for cross traffic coming from our left, checking for pedestrian in the adjacent crosswalk, and then turning. Conversely, to properly make a left turn OR a u-turn, we are to signal our intention to turn in that direction, approach the point we want to turn at, and the leftmost edge of the roadway, slowing down and checking to see if there are any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction, checking for pedestrians in the crosswalk to our left, and proceeding with our turn if/when we have the all clear.

Signalling is typically an important element of making a turn simply because it give drivers behind you an idea on what you plan on doing, before you start doing it and as such, they can prepare and react accordingly.

Additionally, the reason we approach the right edge of the roadway for a right turn, is to simply avoid someone sneaking in on our right to make the turn, but MAINLY, we do so to allow the driver behind us some more room on the left side of the roadway to continue going straight with as minimal an affect on their speed. When making a left, we need to merge to the left so as to allow the driver behind us some more room on the right side of the roadway to pass on the right in the slight chance that we have to wait for oncoming traffic from the opposite direction.

In this case, it appears that not only did you fail to signal left, but you did the opposite of what you are supposed to do when making a left turn. Instead of approaching the left most edge of the roadway in your direction, you actually veered right, which gave the officer the impression that you were turning right (or pulling over to the side of the road) so he decided to go around you on your left side.

Apparently, as I was veering to the right (to execute the U-turn in one motion) the Trooper tried passing me up on my left (something I think was wrong on his part).

Nope... A few things that were wrong on YOUR part!

... (one lane, no real shoulder, mini-van)...

"One lane": Again, the law clearly states "one lane, you approach left, and turn".

"No real shoulder": has nothing to do with you turning left simply because the shoulder is on the right side of the road, you should be making your turn from the left most edge of the roadway.

"mini van": The law does not make an exception for a mini van, it applies to all vehicles equally.

What I still don't understand is why I violated the law, if under the circumstances (one lane, no real shoulder, mini-van) it would be considered normal to execute a U-turn the way I did.

I've offered you a couple of other ways of explaining it. If after ^that^ you still don't understand it, then you're intentionally being hard headed.. Hard headed won't get you out of the citation!

Wasn't the law intended to stop U-turns from right-lanes, shoulders, or unreasonable distances from the divider lines?

You were on a one lane road. there is no right lane. You admit to approaching maybe even getting on the right shoulder to make a left turn/u-turn. That is ILLEGAL! And you did it in front of an officer? Even worse yet!

By the way, you seem very knowledgeable. Are you a Traffic Lawyer?

Actually, no I'm not a lawyer. But I'll take that as a compliment

By the way, the reason I asked you how did you get stopped was to simply see if there is any basis to you claiming that you never made your u-turn... Based on how you describe it, your intentions were pretty clear and you most likely admitted attempting a u-turn to the officer.

That leaves you in a much weaker position as far as a plea bargain, but it still won't hurt to go in and ask the prosecutor if he's willing to negotiate... You can try the "I never got to complete my u-turn" and though I'm not sure how well it will work, you won't lose much if you tried.

Good luck!

[ae123]

Thanks again.
And yes, take the lawyer comment as a compliment.
I hear you loud and clear. Three points though.
1 - I never admitted attempting a U-turn. The officer only said "License and registration" and I said nothing at all.
2 - I honestly don't remember if I signaled or not, but I probably did since I always do.
3 - Not that I think it changes my situation, but how can you justify a Trooper trying to pass me on my left - on a one lane road, with no shoulder? Even if I was veering to the right, there isn't ample room for two vehicles.

[That Guy]

Not that I think it changes my situation, but how can you justify a Trooper trying to pass me on my left - on a one lane road, with no shoulder? Even if I was veering to the right, there isn't ample room for two vehicles.

It needs no justification... As I said above, one of the reasons why you are required to merge to the right and make your right turn from the right most edge of the roadway is to allow the vehicle behind you to go around you if he chooses to. In other words, he is allowed to pass you on the left if you were making a right turn and or stopping on the side of the road. It also needs no justification simply because he is an officer, he could have driven in the opposite lanes if he wanted to.... And even if he was not an officer but just another driver instead, and even if he somehow did commit a violation, his violation would not be an excuse for you to commit one or a way to justify yours.

Let me ask you this.... Lets assume you were following someone, and all of a sudden they started to slow down and merge to the right... What would you do?

[ae123]

Let me ask you this.... Lets assume you were following someone, and all of a sudden they started to slow down and merge to the right... What would you do?

I would probably veer toward the left of him slightly, slow down somewhat and continue driving.
However, I still think I would be wrong.

[That Guy]

However, I still think I would be wrong.

Well, you better start thinking different... This time it was a ticket... Hopefully there is no next time