How to Find Out Who Owns a Post Office Box

[QuiTamMan]

I placed this post in this particular forum as there are significant technical details related to obtaining the names of the owners and operators of a website.
A few months ago, I filed a USPS 352.44 form for the discovery of the names behind the post office box number that was listed in ICann as the registrars for the website in question.
(Note: Attempts to call them via phone failed....nothing but voice mail.)
I was surprised when I received no response from that particular post office.
Should I send another form and send it via registered mail ?
I'm very concerned that the registrar has "paid off" the postal employees at that post office to avoid discovery.
Any advice greatly appreciated.

[flyingron]

You just can't ask for a box holder's info (unless they checked the box on the form saying they were using the box for public commerce). It takes a subpoena (or in some cases a process server can get it). Nobody is "paid" off. There are rules for this Try 39 CFR 265.6 (d).

[QuiTamMan]

Thanks for the response. First of all the website in question is a .COM ULD (upper level domain). Second of all, the site does charge for certain services.
Finally, anyone can become a member on this site.
Thus, I believe this qualifies as "public commerce".
If they did not check that box on the application form, that could be construed as fraud IMHO.
I believe ICANN should be made aware of this.

[cmre3456]

First, .com alone isn't necessarily an upper level domain but that's completely and entirely irrelevant here for several reasons. What's relevant is that it's a commercial enterprise.

I would fill out the request form again and hand carry it to the postmaster at my local post office and ask for help. I would attach screenshots of the site showing where they charge for services. If the local won't help you, send all of that documentation and a new request and see what happens.

[flyingron]

If they didn't check the box on the box application, they postmaster is NOT going to issue it to the public.
You are going to need a subpoena.

[cmre3456]

If they didn't check the box on the box application, they postmaster is NOT going to issue it to the public.
You are going to need a subpoena.

You're right. I went into brain fade.

QuiTamMan, you seem to know the domain name? Have you done a whois lookup?

http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/index.jsp

http://www.whois.net/

Simply type the domain name, ie www.amazon.com in the dialogue boxes and search.

[QuiTamMan]

Of course I have done a whois lookup !! How would I have obtained the registrars name ?
FlyingRon is correct, but so am I: I believe I has discovered a pattern of fraud here.
What a clever way for a website owner to hide: Just contract with a registrar who fraudulently conceals his post office box !
Slick, very slick.
FlyingRon is again correct with regards to the ULD. It doesn't matter if it's EDU,ORG, whatever.
What is significant is that the REGISTRAR is a public facing entity and is a for-profit organization that collects fees for registering domain names.
I don't really trust that ICANN is going to do anything here....I think this is fed material.
Yep, they should subpoena ICANN for their database; query for all of the registrars with post office boxes, determine which have not checked the box off indicating public commerce, then issue subpoenas to each of those after cross-referencing with the US Postal Service's database of box holders.

[cmre3456]

You're overreacting. There is nothing illegal about owning a web site anonymously. There are businesses which register domain names for entities for that purpose. If you're an individual, there's nothing illegal about owning a PO box anonymously, at least from the public.

As for your "Of course I have done a whois lookup !! How would I have obtained the registrars name ?" statement, I have no idea. Some people don't know to do that and I might have helped you, but apparently you don't appreciate my attempts, or accept what the laws are regarding web sites and PO boxes.

I can also have an unlisted phone number. I can also block caller ID. I can use a PO box to remain anonymous. I have a right to privacy.

Again, as far as upper level domain names, .com, .gov, .edu, etc. aren't in and of themselves upper level. It depends on the string that's in front of them. For instance I could do web hosting for people under my registered name, xyz.com. Then I could host you as quitamman.xyz.com. I could host thousands of sites that way on the same server or group of servers. All of those sites would end in .com but none would have an upper level name. DNS would resolve your quitamman.xyz.com to my xyz.com server, and my server would resolve your name internally, locally.

cmre3456,
Microsoft Certified Systems (Worldwide internet) Engineer, retired senior VP, IT.

PS. What does "quitamman" stand for? Does it mean you're a quitter?

[QuiTamMan]

Now that you're retired, why not go to law school ?

Definition
In a qui tam action, a private party called a relator brings an action on the government's behalf. The government, not the relator, is considered the real plaintiff. If the government succeeds, the relator receives a share of the award. Also called a popular action.
For example, the federal False Claims Act authorizes qui tam actions against parties who have defrauded the federal government. 31 U.S.C. § 3279 et seq. If successful, a relator in a False Claims Act qui tam action may receive up to 30% of the government's award.

Since no attorneys have responded to my last post, I'll assume I am definitely onto something here:

The registrars have falsified their post office box applications in an effort to thwart any legal action or discovery of them and/or their clients who are the owners of the domains they have registered. This could be justice department material as it also implicates the horrid US Postal Service.

[Dogmatique]

I'll go get the popcorn.

(It doesn't mean what you THINK it means, OP)