Who Should My Child Speak with to Have a Voice in the Courtroom

[aardvarc]

But there are problems:

I've lost and there ain't a damned thing I can do about it.

There is always tomorrow and a change of circumstance. Nothing is forever. But as the situation stands right now, there's not evidence of anything that'll cause the court to modify custody. Certainly you can bring your grievances before the court for portions of the order that dad isn't following. Given dad's need and exercise of control, you can ask that the portion that allows dad to call every day, which is needless, to be removed (based on the court already considering you fit and not in need of dad being a babysitter). And, given that dad moved the child further away from you, you're right in the ballpark to ask for extended time for visitation and even for dad to bear any additional cost. But the fact remains that for whatever reasons, dad was awarded custody - and it's going to take some documented change of circumstance for the court to now alter it. Yes, sometimes that DOES mean that dad has to be pulled over, or God forbid, even get into an accident before there's proof of dad's drinking problem. But until such evidence DOES exist, in SOME form other than the testimony of a 7 year old, the reality is that change of custody won't occur.

Sexually assaulting him seems to be OK too so I won't go there......WTF????? Are you guys SERIOUS or is this site some kind of joke? I mean, REALLY?

Was the sexual assault reported to authorities? Was a medical exam done? Was the child interviewed by a psychologist or other mental health professional as soon as the assault was discovered? Were any injuries documented or medical care provided? Was a CPS investigation conducted? What were the outcomes of each of these?

A little kid has to be abused so severely he's missing BODY parts for a judge to ACT?

No. And no one's insinuating such. But there DO have to be some elements present, namely reasonable answers to the questions above.

First, I must prove the CP is not capable of fostering the mother/child bond. Easy to do, piece of cake, got all my ducks in a row.

Yep, you may have that element covered.

Second, I have to prove I am the better parent.

No. Here's where you're mistaken. It's not about proving who's the better parent. That stopped being important when the court INITIALLY decided custody. Once that happens, what the court needs is a CHANGE in the child's circumstance. For example, here's a common way that this gets mis-interpreted: mom and dad split, mom is going to move and get her own place and start a new job to support herself and the child. When she first moves out, she's got money problems, emotional problems, and living situation problems, like sleeping on a friends' couch where there's no room for the child to come with her. Fast forward a year. Now she's got everything in place, a steady job, a home of her own with a room for the child, good health insurance, great school in the neighborhood, everything she could have wished for her child. Problem is that the child has been with dad all this time, and no matter how good mom might have it NOW, it'll STILL take a change in the CHILD'S circumstances before mom has a shot at custody. The standards for initial custody and CHANGE of custody are vastly different.

CP runs a meth lab with capitol gains exceeding more than a million annually or runs a child prostitution ring with kids under the age of 10,

And if any of those things can be proven, yes, they'd be huge. And dad would automatically loose custody when he became a guest of the state prison system. But we've no indication that dad has any such convictions against him. Does he?

but I've done my homework, friends, and Illinois always prefers for a young child to remain with the mother.

Maybe at the INITIAL custody proceeding, which is done and over with. NOW it's going to take a change in the child's circumstances OR dad being found unfit (we're back to EVIDENCE again).

My lawyer has been in practice there for over 25 years and has NEVER seen a judge award primary physical of a young child to the father, REGARDLESS of the circumstances.

And yet...dad HAS custody.


Your ONLY chance here is to focus on and DOCUMENT, or get other authorities like police, social services, schools, or CPS to document, that all important CHANGE in the child's circumstances or dad's unfitness. One of those elements is needed, no matter how big a mountain of OTHER circumstances might exist.

[Dogmatique]

OP has other threads relating to this same situation. I don't think anything has changed since then (one is from April, I believe, when OP's attorney was going to file something).

[LawResearcherMissy]

I am commending one of your own, give me credit for that, before you boot me off, OK?

She isn't saying anything different from anyone else.

I don't care about you "commending" anyone, I'm not going to put up with temper tantrums and insulting the volunteers who give freely of their time to try to help people like you. Shape up, or you'll be shipped out. Got it? Good.

[PandorasBox]

I'm going out on a limb here:

- First, kids can be trained by a parent to lie. So you need physical evidence.
- Yes, the possibility, and I stress that word, of your ex drinking and driving with the kid bothers me. However, I don't think a 7-year old is capable of judging the contents of a bottle. A lot of those 5-hour energy drinks can be found in tiny bottles the same size as a 50-ml bottle of liquor. Even going into a liquor store is not concrete proof, as many have other items as well - pop, snack foods, some even have a deli counter and sandwiches....
- As for the cycle of abuse, a lot of us here are more familiar with it than you give us credit for. Been there, done it, threw the jerk out, and divorced him. We understand why you did not get out sooner - yes, abusers really do a head job on you, making you think YOU are the crazy one, and the abuser is God Reincarnated. Honey, I took off the rose colored glasses, but it took me a long time also to do it.

I truly sympathize with you, as I know my fellow volunteers do. I've been with this group for 3 years. Thing is, we do have issues where people get mad at us because we tell them THE LAW, not WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR. Ok? We're trying to help you. We won't lie to you.

What we're telling you is that you need concrete proof. To put it this way - people are not happy about Casey Anthony getting off for the death of Caylee. But - the jury ruled that the proof simply was not there.

Best I can say is talk to your lawyer, and maybe get a Private Investigator involved.

[asulover]

In my Husbands case his ex filed a motion for the child to be heard in chambers, our lawyer motioned it was unreasonable, the judge denied her request. She also tried to get in notes from counselers but the judge found because the mother was a major influence in child life and may have told him what to say it would not be taken into evidence. My DSS is 7, so he was 6 at the time.

- - - Updated - - -

In my Husbands case his ex filed a motion for the child to be heard in chambers, our lawyer motioned it was unreasonable, the judge denied her request. She also tried to get in notes from counselers but the judge found because the mother was a major influence in child life and may have told him what to say it would not be taken into evidence. My DSS is 7, so he was 6 at the time.

Note: I'm in Arizona, which is known to be a very mother friendly state and we won custody. Even though the courts tend to be skeered, broken clocks are still right twice a day!

[wolfcreekgal]

I thank everyone here for their comments and concerns, I DO appreciate them all even if most of them are not what I wanted to hear. : (

I have a couple more things for you. Since I had no legal rights to object to the CP's move many miles away in the state of Wyoming, would that play any part? Also, CP told judge at original hearing he planned to stay in Wyoming forever as he had just purchased a home there. How can any of that be true if he moved a mere 3 months after the hearing? I did find out CP had entered a "rent to own" situation and that's how he was able to high-tail it out of there so fast. Does any of that matter? Lying to the judge and all to get your way?

Also, I was with my child's father for 5 years (not long to be sure) but during that time, dad drank constantly. His work van had two 5 gallon buckets full of the 50 ML plastic liquor bottles at any given time. I found larger glass bottles hidden all over basement rafters, the garage rafters, the shoes and jacket pockets in his closet, behind the bed, etc. He used to buy a large bottle of diet Pepsi before a familiy function, empty out 3/4's of it's contents, and fill the rest with whiskey. He has 5 DUI convictions that I know of and my little boy is telling me he's buying little bottles and drinking them before driving home, and if it's little bottles of coca cola, I'm Mother Teresa. From what I have seen for myself, dad still has the same problem he has had since he was 14 years old and he's now 51, but looks more like 65. I discovered a lot back then going to Al-anon and it is almost impossible for an alcoholic to quit using without extensive intervention. The key is, you have to want to be helped and he never wanted that. I understand drinking alcohol is completely legal, but that much and while raising an impressionable young child?

[Dogmatique]

The time to challenge the move has unfortunately passed. The fact that Dad lied was pretty despicable, but it's unfortunately not going to matter now.

With regards to Dad's drinking - if it wasn't raised during the initial custody determination, it won't matter now. Something needs to have changed. And yes, unfortunately, raging alcoholics are allowed to raise their children.

Mom, we really do understand your pain. But as Catherine, Missy and others have stated, it's no longer a case of you being the better parent or your son being better off with you. It's now about change. Something has to have changed, and that change must be detrimental to the child. Dad's been an alcoholic for years, so there's no change there. The courts apparently decided that it wasn't a big deal (if they were made aware of it).

There is something, if this ended up in court, that you might be asked. How are these conversations with your son starting? (Do you see where I'm going with this?)

I honestly hope today is a little brighter for you.

[wolfcreekgal]

Thanks Dogmatique. Honestly, I have told my lawyer what I've learned here and he still insists I have a very good chance. I don't feel nearly as confident anymore though. I have told him maybe it's best to just keep the "status quo" and try and get a bit more visitation, but he tells me "no" we're going for full custody. So, this is all really stressful, to say the very least.

[PandorasBox]

YOU hire the lawyer. HE works for YOU. YOU tell him what YOU want to do.

At this point, I would consult with some other attorneys and find a better one to retain.

I do stress again....ok, dad had a prior history of drinking. He may be doing so now, but again....there is no physical evidence. If he got a DUI tomorrow, that would change things. If he got fired tomorrow for drinking on the job...that would change things. That is when the past DUI's may be able to come into play, showing a pattern.

As for the past...the hidden bottles....there's no way to prove they were his, were consumed by him, etc. Even if photographed and introduced into evidence at the time, you would need someway to prove they were his, and not planted.....

[LawResearcherMissy]

Wolfie, I'm glad you've calmed down a bit and now understand that we aren't trying to hurt or upset you.

I'm in complete agreement with Pandora. Your attorney is not in command of the situation, you are, and if your attorney is not presenting a realistic picture for you, it's time to get a new one. I wish I could send you the attorney who handled my friend's divorce and custody hearings. My friend's tail was wound pretty tightly, and she had it in her head that she was getting sole custody because she was the better parent, too. (She really is, BTW. Her ex is a nitwit, when he has the kids they're at my house most of the time!)

Dennis, unlike your attorney, brought her up short and explained the reality of the situation to her. Not what she wanted to hear, but a GOOD and ETHICAL attorney, one who truly has your best interests at heart, will tell you the hard truths instead of blowing sunshine up your butt.