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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    11

    Default Aircraft Zone Listings

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Maine.

    I am fighting a ticket where I was stopped for speeding and clocked by aircraft. Does anyone know how I can obtain a list or documentation of where the aircraft speed measuring zones are? If I can find this documentation, I can win my case as I was not in an aircraft zone. Any help or advice would be much appreciated!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
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    9,170

    Default Re: Aircraft Zone Listings

    Quote Quoting mnusicallife86
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    If I can find this documentation, I can win my case as I was not in an aircraft zone.
    Well, if you know you were not in an "aircraft zone" (whatever that might be) then you must know where the aircraft zones are!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
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    Default Re: Aircraft Zone Listings

    When speed is measured by aircraft, the normal method is to time how long it takes a vehicle to travel between two fixed points. Frequently, these points will be two painted marks placed a measured distance apart along the roadway. However, any two points that are a known distance apart can be used...overpasses, emergency vehicle turnarounds, billboards, etc. As long as the distance between them is accurately measured, unchanging, and can be clearly seen from the plane, the math still works.

    But, even if you are only talking about markings specifically placed for aircraft speed enforcement, you are not going to be provided with a "list" of where they all are! If you challenge your citation in open court, the observer in the plane will be obligated to explain how your speed was determined. You have the right to question the officer and can ask the specific location of the landmarks used to measure YOUR speed. You can also ask how the distance between those landmarks was measured. But, nobody is going to provide you a document that maps out where all such landmarks are located.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    11

    Default Re: Aircraft Zone Listings

    Thank you very much for your advice, I really appreciate it. Do I need to subpoena the trooper and the aircraft observer?

    There are no aircraft markings throughout the 55 MPH zone that I was allegedly clocked in. I was just about to go back into the 65 MPH zone when I was pulled over (but not yet) and the aircraft makings don't start again until several miles into the 65 speed zone so I know the aircraft thing doesn't make sense in the area I was pulled over.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Tacoma, WA
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    Default Re: Aircraft Zone Listings

    Again, the landmarks used do not have to be painted markings along the roadway! Even then...have you actually conducted a survey of that entire stretch of roadway to so conclusively state that "There are no aircraft markings throughout the 55 MPH zone that I was allegedly clocked in"?

    I am not familiar with Maine court procedure. So, I do not know if you need to subpoena the officer. If you want to contest the ticket, contact the court and ask the proper procedure. You might want to also do some further research into the procedures for your area.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: Aircraft Zone Listings

    By "aircraft makings[sic]", do you mean the ASTM marks that are painted on the side of the highway -- usually at 1/4 mile intervals. Or are you talking about the "advisory" signs stating "Speed checked by aircraft"?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    11

    Default Re: Aircraft Zone Listings

    I have indeed conducted that survey, and re-checked several times to make sure I am correct that there are no markings on the roadway. @bleewis, I am talking about painted markings... there are no signs that advise speed checked by aircraft. Thanks for responding! I appreciate it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Aircraft Zone Listings

    it sounds like determining how they clocked you is something you should be seeking in discovery.





    has anybody else, just for fun and all, gone out and painted white lines in between two existing lines distance marker lines?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
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    9,170

    Default Re: Aircraft Zone Listings

    Quote Quoting mnusicallife86
    View Post
    I have indeed conducted that survey, and re-checked several times to make sure I am correct that there are no markings on the roadway.
    While you might think you're sure you are correct that there are no markings on the highway, as has been posted by PTPD22, markings need not be of the conventional type of one which we might immediately recognize as "markings used by aircraft". For example, the California MUTCD states the following:

    Quote Quoting Section 3B.21 2012 CA-MUTCD - Page 698
    Standard:
    Markings shall not be on the traveled way.

    Option:
    If routes with narrow shoulders are requested for marking, the standard marking shape may be modified to provide an equivalent area without encroaching on the traveled way or the Alternate Marking System described.

    Support:
    The Alternate Marking System is an 8 inch wide solid white longitudinal line, 20 feet in length and in line with the right edge line. It is preceded and followed by a 20 feet gap in the right edge line.
    So while you might be looking for short dashes and/or lines that are perpendicular to the path of travel, here they are parallel to it!

    Besides that though, they could use two cracks in the pavement if they knew what the distance between them is. From there it is a simply calculation of distance/time. And frankly, in your case, a few inches over 20 or so feet is not likely to make much of a difference between guilt or innocence with you being clocked at 21mph over the limit, (76 in 55).

    This is thread # 3 by the way folks. And if there is ever a candidate for information that should be posted in one thread, this most certainly qualifies as “it”!

    What Does "A/C" Mean

    Clocked by "A/C"

    Aircraft Zone Listings

    And the more information you dig up, the more difficult your defense becomes!

    While it turns out Maine does not have an MUTCD per se, they do still utilize the Standard Highway Signs and Markings (SHSM) Book—Design Details. You should download it and go through it and you will likely find some reference to the type of markings you should look for. But even then, they could have used something else in your case!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Aircraft Zone Listings

    Thanks again for the advice, people. Turns out I was correct, they couldn't prove I was correctly clocked by aircraft and the case was dismissed.

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