Jailed Over an Unpaid Speeding Ticket

[RachelBee]

My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Washington.

I need some advice on which steps I need to take.

I'm a Canadian citizen I live in Vancouver BC.
3 years ago I got a speeding ticket in Snohomish County. Which I forgot about and did not pay.
Two days ago I was heading home from Stanwood and got pulled over for speeding in Whatcom County.
I was then arrested and taken directly to jail.
My friends bailed me out for $250.00 US.
I now have a court date on June 22 in Bellingham(Whatcom)
Today paid the ticket I received on thursday.

My questions are:
How do I find out what I owe and how do I pay the outstanding ticket if I don't have the ticket anymore?
Can I drive myself to my court date in Whatcom or is my licence still suspended?
Why am I going to court?
Do I need a lawyer?

I'm not sure what I need to do. I have never been to court and I certainly had never been to Jail before.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

[Mr. Knowitall]

You can see if the court is able to tell you what amount you owe. They may not be able to do so before your hearing, but they're still your best bet.

If you have not reinstated your driving privileges in Washington State, your license is still suspended.

You are going to court because you failed to pay your ticket and... for reasons you have not shared. Perhaps you are facing a contempt charge. Perhaps you were charged with driving on a suspended license.

It wouldn't hurt to consult a lawyer, particularly if you're facing a criminal charge for DWLS.

[RachelBee]

I have no other charges I have never had any run ins with the law.

How do I reinstate my licence? I do not have the original ticket from 3 years ago. I would like to pay it so I can drive myself to court on friday.
I'm pretty sure the reason I went to jail was because my licence was suspended for that outstanding ticket.

[PTPD22]

You have to take care of court first, and then go do the paperwork and pay the fees to DOL to get your license reinstated. You can't do it the other way around. Your license is suspended because you didn't take care of the notice of infraction. Now, the option of just paying the fine by mail is out the window. Now, you can only take care of it by appearing before a judge. And, DOL aint going to reinstate you license until after the court thing is taken care of. You don't need your original citation. The court knows what you were charged with.

You can look on the paperwork you got when you were released from jail to see why you went to jail...In fact, you would be well advised to do so! On that paperwork I'm pretty sure that you will find a new court date for a new charge of driving on a suspended license! So, now you have to take care of the original ticket in traffic court AND the new charge in criminal court...THEN you can go work things out with DOL.

[RachelBee]

sheesh!
ok well thank you for your help. I'm going to try to find a lawyer in whatcom county. Any recommendations?

[rprevolution]

Rachel. I'm from Vancouver as well and have very similar, as well as recent story as yours - Speeding ticket from several years ago that went unpaid. A week ago got pulled over and issued criminal citation for driving with suspended license - news to me as well! Unlike you, fortunately I wasn't arrested and was able to get my passenger to take over driving.

As far as you being arrested, RCW 46.23.020 - Reciprocal agreements authorized — Provisions states:

(2) Such agreements shall provide that if a person licensed by either state or province is issued a citation by the other state or province for a moving traffic violation covered by the agreement, he shall not be detained or required to furnish bail or collateral, and that if he fails to comply with the terms of the citation, his license shall be suspended or renewal refused by the state or province that issued the license until the home jurisdiction is notified by the issuing jurisdiction that he has complied with the terms of the citation.

If we examine the definition of "citation" in Chapter 46.23 RCW Nonresident violator compact it states:

(1) "Citation" means any summons, ticket, notice of infraction, or other official document issued by a police officer for a traffic offense containing an order which requires the motorist to respond.

I have a serious concern that it's possible that you legally should NOT have been arrested, or required to furnish bail. So you definitely should express that concern to an attorney.

I've made a bit of headway in my research and getting the ball rolling with settling mine, including my first court appearance. If you want maybe we can pool our research and legal advice together. Either reply here, or send me a PM!

[That Guy]

Rachel. I'm from Vancouver as well and have very similar, as well as recent story as yours - Speeding ticket from several years ago that went unpaid. A week ago got pulled over and issued criminal citation for driving with suspended license - news to me as well! Unlike you, fortunately I wasn't arrested and was able to get my passenger to take over driving.

As far as you being arrested, RCW 46.23.020 - Reciprocal agreements authorized — Provisions states:

(2) Such agreements shall provide that if a person licensed by either state or province is issued a citation by the other state or province for a moving traffic violation covered by the agreement, he shall not be detained or required to furnish bail or collateral, and that if he fails to comply with the terms of the citation, his license shall be suspended or renewal refused by the state or province that issued the license until the home jurisdiction is notified by the issuing jurisdiction that he has complied with the terms of the citation.

If we examine the definition of "citation" in Chapter 46.23 RCW Nonresident violator compact it states:

(1) "Citation" means any summons, ticket, notice of infraction, or other official document issued by a police officer for a traffic offense containing an order which requires the motorist to respond.

I have a serious concern that it's possible that you legally should NOT have been arrested, or required to furnish bail. So you definitely should express that concern to an attorney.

I think you're misreading 46.23.020.

The procedures under that section were applied correctly to the issuing of the speeding citation that the OP received 3 years ago.
She was not detained nor required to furnish bail or collateral...
She failed to compply with the terms of the citation, i.e. she failed to appear or pay the fine.
Her driving privilege was suspended in WA, and her home jurisdiction was notified.
Her license was suspended by her home jurisdiction.
She was subsequently caught driving on a suspended license which is a criminal charge in WA (it is no longer a "moving traffic violation" - See RCW 46.20.342) and was subsequently arrested and eventually bailed out.

[rprevolution]

I think you're misreading 46.23.020.

The procedures under that section were applied correctly to the issuing of the speeding citation that the OP received 3 years ago.
She was not detained nor required to furnish bail or collateral...
She failed to compply with the terms of the citation, i.e. she failed to appear or pay the fine.
Her driving privilege was suspended in WA, and her home jurisdiction was notified.
Her license was suspended by her home jurisdiction.
She was subsequently caught driving on a suspended license which is a criminal charge in WA (it is no longer a "moving traffic violation" - See RCW 46.20.342) and was subsequently arrested and eventually bailed out.

Please note the home jurisdiction of OP and myself as British Columbia, Canada. I, and most likely her as well have not had our licenses suspended by the governing body of licensing & insurance, ICBC in our home jurisdiction. Just to clarify, I presume that Washington, USA has no jurisdiction over our license, only our privilege to drive in the state. I've read that this is apparently tracked with a driver license number that is created for Canadians in the system. The wording in the legislation and the fact that my criminal citation has the 'traffic' checkbox marked off on the ticket makes the wording vague enough to suggest her double checking whether her arrest and bail was legal under the above noted reciprocal agreement. Couldn't at the very least hurt to ask.

So, now you have to take care of the original ticket in traffic court AND the new charge in criminal court...THEN you can go work things out with DOL.

Regarding this post above, I've read several threads that gave specific examples of how other people paid off their outstanding tickets and reinstated their license FIRST with the DOL prior to their trial date. They provided documentation proving this reinstatement to the prosecutor and were able to work out a deal to reduce the matter to a civil infraction & fine, or dismiss it altogether. This needs to be double checked with an attorney as well.

Please advise me if there is anything I have missed in best getting this matter resolved. Really appreciating the advice and feedback!

[That Guy]

Please note the home jurisdiction of OP and myself as British Columbia, Canada.

Well, simple.. here you go:

RCW 46.23.020 Reciprocal agreements authorized — Provisions.

*** CHANGE IN 2012 *** (SEE 6095.SL) ***

(1) The Washington state department of licensing is authorized and encouraged to execute a reciprocal agreement with the Canadian province of British Columbia, and with any other state which is not a member of the nonresident violator compact, concerning the rendering of mutual assistance in the disposition of traffic infractions committed by persons licensed in one state or province while in the jurisdiction of the other.

(2) Such agreements shall provide that if a person licensed by either state or province is issued a citation by the other state or province for a moving traffic violation covered by the agreement, he shall not be detained or required to furnish bail or collateral, and that if he fails to comply with the terms of the citation, his license shall be suspended or renewal refused by the state or province that issued the license until the home jurisdiction is notified by the issuing jurisdiction that he has complied with the terms of the citation.

(3) Such agreement shall also provide such terms and procedures as are necessary and proper to facilitate its administration.

[1982 c 212 § 2.]

But in reality, it makes little difference if any:

Here is the summary of what's transpired if her suspension was only in effect in WA:

• The procedures under that section were applied correctly to the issuing of the speeding citation that the OP received 3 years ago.
• She was not detained nor required to furnish bail or collateral...
• She failed to comply with the terms of the citation, i.e. she failed to appear or pay the fine.
• Her driving privilege was suspended in WA -------------------
• --------------------------------------------------------------
• She was subsequently caught driving on a suspended license which is a criminal charge in WA (it is no longer a "moving traffic violation" - See RCW 46.20.342) and was subsequently arrested and eventually bailed out.

And here is the summary of what's transpired if her suspension is also in effect in BC:

• The procedures under that section were applied correctly to the issuing of the speeding citation that the OP received 3 years ago.
• She was not detained nor required to furnish bail or collateral...
• She failed to compply with the terms of the citation, i.e. she failed to appear or pay the fine.
• Her driving privilege was suspended in WA, and her home jurisdiction was notified.
• Her license was suspended by her home jurisdiction.
• She was subsequently caught driving on a suspended license which is a criminal charge in WA (it is no longer a "moving traffic violation" - See RCW 46.20.342) and was subsequently arrested and eventually bailed out.

The end result (the underlined portion) is still the same simply because you were caught driving while suspended in Washington!

I, and most likely her as well have not had our licenses suspended by the governing body of licensing & insurance, ICBC in our home jurisdiction.

I find it mind boggling that you have not made an inquiry to find out where you stand!

Just to clarify, I presume that Washington, USA has no jurisdiction over our license, only our privilege to drive in the state.

Just to clarify, I never suggested that Washington has jurisdiction. You'll note that I did specifically state that "her home jurisdiction was notified" AND "Her license was suspended by her home jurisdiction". But again, that has little weight on the final outcome. You both, were caught in violation of your driving privilege restriction in Washington.

The wording in the legislation and the fact that my criminal citation has the 'traffic' checkbox marked off on the ticket makes the wording vague enough to suggest her double checking whether her arrest and bail was legal under the above noted reciprocal agreement.

Its not the least bit vague... But here, this should clarify it (it really does help to read what is posted sometimes):

From RCW 46.20.342

Fron subsection (c)(iv)

(c) A person who violates this section when his or her driver's license or driving privilege is, at the time of the violation, suspended or revoked solely because:

....
.....
......
.......
(iv) the person has failed to respond to a notice of traffic infraction, failed to appear at a requested hearing, violated a written promise to appear in court, or has failed to comply with the terms of a notice of traffic infraction or citation, as provided in RCW 46.20.289
.......
........
..........

...or any combination of (c)(i) through (vii) of this subsection, is guilty of driving while license suspended or revoked in the third degree, a misdemeanor.

Of course the "traffic" box is checked, it is, after all, a "TRAFFIC" matter.

Even if it were vague, the fact that she WAS arrested, booked, processed and allowed to bail out, should really make it crystal clear for anyone who's doubtful.

It is a criminal matter, she was previously released on her own recognizance, and that didn't work out with her in the end (or you for that matter), so the second time around, she gets to post bail in case she decides to not appear again (and you should have gone through the same procedure as well).

You might note that it appears that the OP's appearance date was scheduled for the 22nd, which might suggest she is done with her ordeal!

[rprevolution]

Once again, the analysis above confirms that the original poster should seek professional legal advice, as has been suggested all along.

I find it mind boggling that you have not made an inquiry to find out where you stand!

According to the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC), BC does not have a reciprocal agreement with Washington for traffic violations, so a cross-border speeding ticket would not affect a driver’s record or insurance in BC. A criminal driving offence, however, is another matter.

ICBC adds: “When information is received from the U.S. that a driver has been convicted of an offence equivalent to a Canadian Criminal Code driving offence, the offence would be added to the driver’s record in B.C. and the Superintendent of Motor Vehicles would take action against the driver equivalent to the punishment for that offence in BC”

It is a criminal matter, she was previously released on her own recognizance, and that didn't work out with her in the end (or you for that matter), so the second time around, she gets to post bail in case she decides to not appear again (and you should have gone through the same procedure as well).

Washington State Patrol Spokesman Dan Coon states: “I can’t talk for our county sheriffs or city police, but the troopers we do give a lot of discretion. If the suspended driver operating the vehicle is travelling with other people they may be allowed to continue on, but that particular individual may no longer drive in Washington state. If travelling alone, that individual may need to have someone come and pick them up, or have their vehicle towed. We will not, however, just leave someone on the side of the road,”

So technically just because a commenter in this thread implies taking satisfaction in a young woman being arrested, or wishes that another commenter was arrested, it does not necessarily mean that the State Highway Patrol for example feels the same way.

You might note that it appears that the OP's appearance date was scheduled for the 22nd, which might suggest she is done with her ordeal!

The hearing on the 22nd would have been an initial court appearance to schedule the trial, which would be within 90 days of that date.

Hopefully less debate and more actionable advice from commenters moving forward.