How to Fight a Ticket for Speeding, VC 22350

[MeiLingChou]

My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: CALIFORNIA

Hello. I did a bit of research so I am a little familiar but this is my very first ticket and I did not get to ask the officer how he got me on radar or some other way. I will not ask you how are my chances, because I have decided I will contest my ticket anyways regardless, I just need some help in the process because I have never gotten stopped by a cop before, I had a bit of anxiety at the time and had no clue of what to say or ask or what not to say. I got stopped in a 4 lane road and the road does have warning radar signs. But am unsure how he got me or if he was paying attention, the reason I am saying this is because he was on a motorcycle and I did see him hiding in a cross street and I slowed down, he came after me, but he did not put on any siren or anything and I am not sure he stopped me because he knew I seen him in back of me and I was slowing down so he decided to stop me by telling me to pull over to the next street over. Anyways, there was no other cars on the road or pedestrians at all in sight on a clear day. He got me 14 miles over the speed limit or at least that is what he put on my ticket.

So I have questions for the process of a TBWD. My court date on the ticket says July 20, 2012 but I do not have money right now so I need to extend it. My question is, if I want to send a TBWD, do I extend the appearance or payment date.

When I go to the website this is what I see:

You can request a: When you want to change the date you have to: Approval gets you an additional:
Appearance Date Extension Appear in court 60 days
Fine Payment Extension Pay a fine 90 days
Traffic School Extension Complete traffic school 30 days

Ok I already know I am not extending traffic school. Do I extend the appearance date, or the fine payment, if I plan to send in a TBWD by the extension due date? I don't want to pick the wrong one. Is it the 60 dats or the 90 days?

I would like to know my options or anything further I can do to send in with my letter when I do send in my TBDW and should I send in a request for the TBD with the bail, or should I just d/l the TBD forms and send in everything straight with the bail?

And if I sent in the request for TBD with my bail, do you have any clue how long after that I have to wait for a letter or the form?

Also, I read somewhere that we can request any evidence that the officer may have like exactly what he wrote on the back of the ticket. How can I get that or request that?

And what is this survey that everyone is talking about. I read about it but I still do not quite get what it is and how it could work in my favor. I researched the road I got stopped on, and if it matters at all, everyone seems to think it is a speed trap. I would like to know how I can get this T&E Survey? What is T&E?

Some people say I should not request the evidence until after I send my TBD and see what happens and then request it if I lose to see what kinds of evidence the officer used against me and then request a Trial De Novo. What do you guys think? Some say I should just request it before I send in my TBWD.

I also would like to know how many points goes on my record if I do lose and if I do not get traffic school. How seriously this affects me, and how seriously this affects my insurance at all. Now I understand why the insurance companies pay every 6 months and not yearly. They can raise your insurance after the 6 months is up. But will it ever go back down at all?

And if I do get points for losing my case, how long does the points stay if I was not offered the chance to go to traffic school? How does that work.

I also read that waiving my right to a speedy trial is a disadvantage. What does that mean and does it matter for me? I read that going to court and requesting a TBD is better than requesting one by mail because by mail, I am waiving my rights to a speedy trial. Do you think it matters really?

Also, they do not take phone calls anymore due to the budget cut but the extension now can only be done once online versus I think twice before. Will they let me extend it one more time if I go down there and ask them? And where or what windows will I be doing this at? I never been to a court house and afraid I will have a serious anxiety attack not knowing where to go to request certain things or ask questions. I'd also like to know where at the court house I could go to, to request the evidence if I did lose the TBD, to see the officer's report.

OH. Back to my original question, the main question, if anything, that I needed an answer to was which one do I extend in my case, the fine payment or the court date, if I plan to do a TBD by mail. And I also would like to know could I extend it now? I was afraid if I did the extension now, it would extend from today, like 60 or 90 days from today, or would it extend from my court date that is on my ticket. No one knew and told me to just wait until the day before and extend it just in case, I don't want it to extend from todays date.

Forgive me if I have too many questions but this is my first time and I'd like to have all my bases covered.

THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH!!!

[California student]

So I have questions for the process of a TBWD. My court date on the ticket says July 20, 2012 but I do not have money right now so I need to extend it. My question is, if I want to send a TBWD, do I extend the appearance or payment date.

When I go to the website this is what I see:

You can request a: When you want to change the date you have to: Approval gets you an additional:
Appearance Date Extension Appear in court 60 days
Fine Payment Extension Pay a fine 90 days
Traffic School Extension Complete traffic school 30 days

Ok I already know I am not extending traffic school. Do I extend the appearance date, or the fine payment, if I plan to send in a TBWD by the extension due date? I don't want to pick the wrong one. Is it the 60 dats or the 90 days?

Assuming you haven't requested a TBD yet, you want to extend your appearance date.

I would like to know my options or anything further I can do to send in with my letter when I do send in my TBDW and should I send in a request for the TBD with the bail, or should I just d/l the TBD forms and send in everything straight with the bail?

And if I sent in the request for TBD with my bail, do you have any clue how long after that I have to wait for a letter or the form?

I've only handled TBD matters through the clerks office directly, so I'll let someone else answer this one (and then n=1 for my TBD).

Also, I read somewhere that we can request any evidence that the officer may have like exactly what he wrote on the back of the ticket. How can I get that or request that?

The following is assuming radar or LIDAR was used.

Technically you need to serve informal discovery on the DA since the DA is the only one required to provide discovery. However they don't generally handle traffic infractions so they essentially ignore their obligation. As such the standard advice is to serve the police officer with discovery if you really want the information. You're going to need the officer's training record (POST certification) for radar or LIDAR as applicable and the calibration records. You can also request the officer's notes, but I don't think those are generally very helpful.

And what is this survey that everyone is talking about. I read about it but I still do not quite get what it is and how it could work in my favor. I researched the road I got stopped on, and if it matters at all, everyone seems to think it is a speed trap. I would like to know how I can get this T&E Survey? What is T&E?

In California a speed trap has a very specific meaning in terms of the vehicle code. Speed limit below the state maximum (generally 55 on 2 lane roads, 65 elsewhere outside of special zones like schools) must be justified based on an Engineering Traffic Study (ETS) and, depending on the age, certain other criteria must be met. If those criteria aren't met then the officer cannot testify. No testimony means you're not guilty (unless you admit to it in court, don't do that if you can make a speed trap case). For an ETS you need to make a public records request to your local city's engineering or traffic department.

Some people say I should not request the evidence until after I send my TBD and see what happens and then request it if I lose to see what kinds of evidence the officer used against me and then request a Trial De Novo. What do you guys think? Some say I should just request it before I send in my TBWD.

There's no reason not to make a speed trap argument, if one is present, in TBD. All the information is obtainable and the engineering department isn't going to call the police station and tell them "Did you guys hand out any speeding tickets in the past 2 months at ___ and ___? We just got an ETS request." It's like getting a 1-up mushroom in Mario Brothers and then jumping off a cliff because, hey, you got an extra life.

I also would like to know how many points goes on my record if I do lose and if I do not get traffic school. How seriously this affects me, and how seriously this affects my insurance at all. Now I understand why the insurance companies pay every 6 months and not yearly. They can raise your insurance after the 6 months is up. But will it ever go back down at all?

And if I do get points for losing my case, how long does the points stay if I was not offered the chance to go to traffic school? How does that work.

CVC 22350 is a 1 point offense. If I recall correctly, points last for 3 years on your license. Any increase, and for how long, is between you and your insurance company. Maybe they will raise your rates, maybe they won't. It's up to them. Traffic school makes the DMV withhold the point from your license.

I also read that waiving my right to a speedy trial is a disadvantage. What does that mean and does it matter for me? I read that going to court and requesting a TBD is better than requesting one by mail because by mail, I am waiving my rights to a speedy trial. Do you think it matters really?

If you appear in court (not at the clerk's window, not through mail, but at arraignment) and request a trial, the court has 45 days to try your case. Getting out of an infraction based on the 45 day window is exceedingly rare (when the lines at my local court house to get to a clerk was 2 hours long it was only a 30 day wait between arraignment and trial). Furthermore, it doesn't work if you request a day past the 45 day window (aka "waive time") and it doesn't work for TBD. There is a rule that the clerk must schedule the TDN within 45 days of receiving your request, but the court can extend that time for any reason at any time AND there is no penalty attached to the 45 day limit for TDN anyways. However there have been rare cases of people reporting getting a dismissal because of this.

Also, they do not take phone calls anymore due to the budget cut but the extension now can only be done once online versus I think twice before. Will they let me extend it one more time if I go down there and ask them? And where or what windows will I be doing this at? I never been to a court house and afraid I will have a serious anxiety attack not knowing where to go to request certain things or ask questions. I'd also like to know where at the court house I could go to, to request the evidence if I did lose the TBD, to see the officer's report.

You want the traffic clerk's window. You can ask, maybe they will (I got an extra 30 days at the Temecula courthouse), maybe they won't. The only thing you waste is your time waiting in line. If you want to hand deliver your TBD, this is where you do it. This is also where you request the information from the officer's TBD if you lose and go to TDN. Generally there's a sign saying "Traffic Clerk --->." If worst comes to worst, ask one of the guards working the metal detector and x-ray machine.

OH. Back to my original question, the main question, if anything, that I needed an answer to was which one do I extend in my case, the fine payment or the court date, if I plan to do a TBD by mail. And I also would like to know could I extend it now? I was afraid if I did the extension now, it would extend from today, like 60 or 90 days from today, or would it extend from my court date that is on my ticket. No one knew and told me to just wait until the day before and extend it just in case, I don't want it to extend from todays date.

It extends from the due date, not today's date.

[That Guy]

And for the question that CS left out, the option marked with "extending the appearance date" is the option you would choose if you were fighting the citation; and the "extension to pay the fine" is what you would choose if you are pleading guilty but cannot pay the fine at the moment!

It goes without saying but you're bogging yourself down with all the little details, that you're actually missing the whole big picture, you know that, right?

You've already dismissed the possibility that you would need to take traffic school? And yet you still haven't the slightest clue about what kind of case you have!!

How can you know if you are fighting the ticket or not, or taking traffic school or not, if you still have no idea what the evidence against you is and primarily, what the E&T survey says?

You do realize that once you opt for a TBD or a trial, that some courts will not offer you the traffic school option anymore, correct?

What if the survey does validate the speed limit?
Do you think you can convince the judge that 14mph over is reasonable?
This, in spite of the fact that, presumably, 85 drivers that went through there before you decided collectively that the posted limit *IS* the safe speed? Not a speed that is 14mph higher?

[MeiLingChou]

I'm willing to handle the TBD through the clerk's office as well or by mail, whichever might be a better option. I do not work but I am a student in college in my 30s.

I am in the process of trying to locate that survey but because it's the weekend, I can't make any phone calls at the moment. However, I am not sure where to look. I got stopped in the city of Rowland Hts. and it is a very very tiny city. Most major cities will have the engineering division on their local website, but I cannot find this at all. I noticed on another thread that a person was also searching for surveys in my city but could not locate one at all. I will call the Los Angeles County of Public Works and see what they say, if they can direct me to the right place.

I will definitely work on locating that survey and I will go ahead and extend my appearance date.

Yes. I do realize I run the risk of not being offered traffic school which is why I was wondering about the points and how long it stays on my record and how this could affect my insurance company. I'm hoping that it does not, I am not with any major company, cross my fingers, but my payments are minimum anyways so it is fine.

My plan was to go ahead with the TBD after I get the survey, assuming that it could help in my defense. And if I am still found guilty, I will request the CHP's declaration, request for a TDN, and if the declaration shows that I do not have enough evidence, I will call the court to ask if I can cancel the TDN and request traffic school if any possibility.

Thanks for clarifying the appearance date and pay the fine difference.

I guess all I can do is wait until Monday to make phone calls about the survey. I will extend my appearance date for another two months, so that means I have until September to be prepared for my case, if I have any.

Thank you guys for helping me out!! I appreciate it greatly!!! Any additional help information is welcome!!! Or if you have anymore questions!!!

- - - Updated - - -

I called the City of Los Angeles Public Works and they told me that the survey for my street that I got stopped on has exprired but they will send me a PDF form to my email within the next day or two.

Can someone please tell me what this means for me??? THANK YOU!!!

[California student]

It depends on what they mean by "expired." If by "expired" they mean it's over 5 years old, then somewhat as it places additional requirements on the officer. If by "expired" they mean it's over 10 years old, then yes, it means it is a speed trap.

[MeiLingChou]

It depends on what they mean by "expired." If by "expired" they mean it's over 5 years old, then somewhat as it places additional requirements on the officer. If by "expired" they mean it's over 10 years old, then yes, it means it is a speed trap.

They only said it expired a year ago. Not sure what that means but I am working on getting it sent to me. I even called a different number to see if they will have an updated one or if it will be the same one.

I will be back in two days to let you know about the survey and find a way to upload it. I'm new to this.

Thanks for replying!!!

- - - Updated - - -

I called places and they just tell me that they do not have a current survey and it is expired. How would I know exactly how old is it? If they tell me it expired one year ago, does that mean it is only 1 year old? How do you determine how old a survey is?? And how can I have proof that the survey is old? Do I still request the old survey and send it along with the TBD? Or would I just explain in my TBD that the survey is old and request that my case be dismissed?

Any help is appreciated thanks!!!

[That Guy]

I called places and they just tell me that they do not have a current survey and it is expired. How would I know exactly how old is it? If they tell me it expired one year ago, does that mean it is only 1 year old? How do you determine how old a survey is?? And how can I have proof that the survey is old? Do I still request the old survey and send it along with the TBD? Or would I just explain in my TBD that the survey is old and request that my case be dismissed?

Any help is appreciated thanks!!!

What "places" did you call?

And what happened to you calling the City of Los Angeles Public Works and them telling you they will send you a PDF form to my email within the next day or two.

Interestingly, I just dealt with LADOT and they require their own form to be submitted along with a check for cost of copying (I think its $4 per survey /the form will have the amount)

Basically what you have to do is simply ask themn for a copy of the most recent E& T Survey. If they say "its expired", you say "that's OK, I would like to have a copy of the most recnt E&T survey -EVEN IF- its expired".

If they give you a difficult time, ask them if they have a specific form for a CPRA request. If they say yes, inquire about how/where to get one, complete it, submit it and wait for a response.

If they say "no, no specific form" you send then a letter requesting it, and you cite California Government Code section 6250 through 6270.

[MeiLingChou]

I called two places and they said they would get back to me or send it to me but never did.

So I called back one of the places today and they said I would have to fill out some sort of declaration first before they can send it to me? I am unsure of any charges, they did not say anything about that. They only asked how I would want it to be mailed and I said email is fine. So that was earlier today. I did not get any email yet.

I will call back the other place tomorrow morning. I did not want to call back and be pushy about it because I figure they would be busy but that was Monday and tomorrow will be Friday so I will start calling again.

Thank you for your help. I will check back on what they say!!

Oh I called the LA County Department of Public Works who I will call back tomorrow morning because he did not send me any email like he said he would.

And then I called my local city, the Public Works, I was referred to a person who handles the engineering department and she said she would email me the declaration to submit before I can get the survey sent to me. Is that the form I am suppose to fill out in order to get the survey? The other place never said I needed any forms to fill out.

Will let you know what happens.

- - - Updated - - -

June 8, 2012 Friday. 9:45am

Ok so I called back today but the County of Los Angeles Department of Public Works is closed on Fridays, or at least the Alhambra headquarters building is. The person I talked to on Monday who was suppose to email me the survey handles the traffic and lighting, traffic and investigation area. I got the number from a lacounty.gov site.

But I did get the second place to email me the form to fill out. The form only says that I may have to pay a fee but it does not say how much yet, so we'll see what happens. She emailed me the form and I scanned it and emailed her back the sign and dated form. The name of the form is "Public Records Inspection/Copying Request" and I got the phone number it seems also from a lacounty.gov site but it was more specifically a PDF brochure of my local city and has all the information and numbers to contact concerning the city of Rowland Hts. I was doing a Google search and found it, not through the lacounty.gov site so I did not realize that the places I called was from the same site.

Let you know what happens!! Thank you!!!

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June 8, 2012 Friday 7:40pm

I mailed a request for the speed survey to LADOT and included a $4 check with the form that was available online. That one will take time to process. Monday I will call the Alhambra headquarters of LA County Department of Public Works to see what is going on. He must have forgotten about me.

[That Guy]

The likelihood that L A County has one survey and L A D O T has another is ZERO!

Its either or, not both... So if you were told by LADOT that they have your survey, the LADPW has nothing for you!

[MeiLingChou]

June 10, 2012 732AM
I did not call and ask LADOT. I was told in an earlier post to ask my local city traffic and engineer so that is what I did. And you mentioned LADOT so I just went on their website to d/l the request form and send it in. I figure it couldn't hurt to get all my bases covered in any case the Public Works do not get back to me because I informed them on Monday but they did not get back to me like they said it would. I had to call back the second place again. First place I called, never got back to me. I am pretty sure it would be the same survey but to come on here and ask you guys every little question and wait for a response just seemed like I would be wasting time when I should just have gone ahead and request it. I figure asking three places, at least one should respond to me, hopefully. The first two places I called say it expired a year ago and I have no clue what that means. In my mind, maybe LADOT has a current one? I do not know anything about speed surveys so forgive me if I am doing something wrong. I thought I was just being a bit smarter by trying to see if someone else had an updated survey. Worst thing that could happen is that LADOT has the same survey or has nothing for me like you said.

Thank you for helping me. Everyone is very kind.