Third Party Intervention in a Custody Case

[whispers]

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Missouri.

Firstly, this is my first time posting on here. I'm hoping this is alright... I'm asking being a third party to this whole situation as it is but trying to understand the situation better and maybe even provide some help to those actually more involved.

My fiancee is currently going through a drawn out divorce. The official paperwork for it was done in January of 2011. There was one child born into the marriage, the paternity always a question as they were living in separate places, she with another man she was seeing, they were living different lives, hardly seeing each other for months around the conception. When they split up "for good", he moved 5 hours away back to his hometown and she kept the child and that was last of contact for him and the daughter. She was threatening him while child support in May of 2011 so he requested for a paternity test to be done. She officially asked for such either end of December or first of January. In the end of January is actually when the results came in that he was in fact the father. My boyfriend is not fighting with her for custody or to ever see her, in fact he is wanting to reliquish what rights he can to her when it's all said and done though he is not fighting child support, been trying to work out the amount, and everything. Social Security are the one's dealing with the payments more so, he's a disabled veteran and the only income he receives is from the VA. He's just wanting to get everything done with without her continuing to stall and problems be brought up.

So this leads to my question...

Two weeks ago, there was a motion to intervene and a motion for third party put in my the grandparents of the child, the mother's parents. Then, last week there was a hearing over it where the mother was fighting against it but "motion to intervene is called, heard and over respondent's objection is granted." My boyfriend did not even know about the grandparent's doing this until the day before this hearing took place and isn't being kept up to date very well. He was told about the situation the day before and told he was not obligated to pay child support until it was sorted out.

My boyfriend has zero contact with his (ex)wife or any of her family really, hasn't spoken to them by choice in over a year. He gets in contact with her sister every once in a great while and my boyfriend's biological mother also has her on facebook. The only communication they really have though is through legal documents in the mail or the few civil setting court dates they have had. Everything is taking place 5 hours from where he lives and he's had trouble making it up there or ever even knowing when he is due to be for this and that. His lawyer is up in that area and is horrible at communication.

So me, I am just trying to understand the situation better to maybe help. He doesn't care who has custody as long as it isn't him or anyone in his family but he doesn't want to be in the middle of something going to drag his divorce out any longer. And I am confused as to how they are even managing this or why it is an issue in the first place and being granted in the court because the mother and the child both live at the grandparent's house. They have for a year and a half and have no plans to move out. The mother of the child lives with them, her cousin/boyfriend, the child she was with my boyfriend and the child she had with her cousin. So why would this be an issue with the court to them?

If they continue trying to obtain custody, what will happen if he doesn't object but she does? How will this effect him and the divorce proceedings to get the decree finalized?

[Dogmatique]

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Missouri.

Firstly, this is my first time posting on here. I'm hoping this is alright... I'm asking being a third party to this whole situation as it is but trying to understand the situation better and maybe even provide some help to those actually more involved.

My fiancee is currently going through a drawn out divorce.

Legally you don't have a fiancee. He's still married.

The official paperwork for it was done in January of 2011. There was one child born into the marriage, the paternity always a question as they were living in separate places, she with another man she was seeing, they were living different lives, hardly seeing each other for months around the conception. When they split up "for good", he moved 5 hours away back to his hometown and she kept the child and that was last of contact for him and the daughter. She was threatening him while child support in May of 2011 so he requested for a paternity test to be done. She officially asked for such either end of December or first of January. In the end of January is actually when the results came in that he was in fact the father. My boyfriend is not fighting with her for custody or to ever see her, in fact he is wanting to reliquish what rights he can to her when it's all said and done though he is not fighting child support, been trying to work out the amount, and everything. Social Security are the one's dealing with the payments more so, he's a disabled veteran and the only income he receives is from the VA. He's just wanting to get everything done with without her continuing to stall and problems be brought up.

He's going to abandon his child? And you're okay with that? You're just fine with him doing that? Hon, that would raise an ENORMOUS red flag for me. But then again, someone proposing to me before their divorce was finalized would also raise a red flag.

Too many red flags.

So this leads to my question...

Two weeks ago, there was a motion to intervene and a motion for third party put in my the grandparents of the child, the mother's parents. Then, last week there was a hearing over it where the mother was fighting against it but "motion to intervene is called, heard and over respondent's objection is granted." My boyfriend did not even know about the grandparent's doing this until the day before this hearing took place and isn't being kept up to date very well. He was told about the situation the day before and told he was not obligated to pay child support until it was sorted out.

My boyfriend has zero contact with his (ex)wife or any of her family really, hasn't spoken to them by choice in over a year. He gets in contact with her sister every once in a great while and my boyfriend's biological mother also has her on facebook. The only communication they really have though is through legal documents in the mail or the few civil setting court dates they have had. Everything is taking place 5 hours from where he lives and he's had trouble making it up there or ever even knowing when he is due to be for this and that. His lawyer is up in that area and is horrible at communication.

And honestly that's where this should end. He should be speaking with his attorney. We cannot second guess his attorney.

So me, I am just trying to understand the situation better to maybe help. He doesn't care who has custody as long as it isn't him or anyone in his family but he doesn't want to be in the middle of something going to drag his divorce out any longer. And I am confused as to how they are even managing this or why it is an issue in the first place and being granted in the court because the mother and the child both live at the grandparent's house. They have for a year and a half and have no plans to move out. The mother of the child lives with them, her cousin/boyfriend, the child she was with my boyfriend and the child she had with her cousin. So why would this be an issue with the court to them?

If they continue trying to obtain custody, what will happen if he doesn't object but she does? How will this effect him and the divorce proceedings to get the decree finalized?

Again this should be something he's discussing with his attorney. It sounds as if the grandparents have stepped in and want either some sort of custody or some sort of visitation - and that absolutely REQUIRES the services of an attorney.

I'm sorry - I saw how many views this thread has, and nobody had responded. I suspect they'd simply say the same thing I've said.

And if I were you, I'd STRONGLY reconsider this whole fiancee business. This is far too soon after the break up of a marriage - and there's a little baby involved! - for one of the parties to be proposing again. I see red flags everywhere, and I'd hate to see you back here in a few years asking how you can get child support when he moves onto the next one.

You don't want to be that woman.

[whispers]

I am quite aware of the legal terms of our relationship. I am aware he is still married. That has nothing to do with this post at the core of it.

Yes, he is going to abandon his child. Yes, I am more than okay with it if that is what he chooses to do. And in fact, he hates the child's existance so staying in her life and resenting her doesn't seem like a better option. He wishes she'd been aborted, supported the idea, has no emotional connect to her, wishes nothing but the worst on her soif that is how he feels staying away from her is probably the better option.

His divorce was set to be finalized right after I had moved out here. Was the reason I packed up and moved halfway across the country. I wasn't going to be making big descisions until it was done then she threw a wrench in everybody's plans. He asked me to marry him and I said yes. We have been on and off for more than eleven years. We were together before he met her and the only reason they rushed into a marriage was him being young and stupid and using her as revenge. Which she knows and has been trying to make out lives living h*** because he spent the entire marriage in love with me and everyone of his friends and family telling him to leave her and come back to me. He has my name tattooed on his back which she tried to cut off of him and I had to file against her for threatening to kill me and stalking me years ago. But whatever our relationship is is up to debate of who sees it as wrong based on just a tiny bit of info and so on.

And also, he was living with her cousin, who she was cheating with, long before they even split up. She has had a child with him- the cousin- since the divorce proceedings has been going on.

I know he needs to be speaking with his attorney, as does he, I was just looking around at different places to try and find out more information ourselves as well and maybe hear from people who have gone through this. Basically anything on here or sites like this should be brought to someone else but yet people flock to forums and websites always searching to learn more on their own as well. That's all I was doing. =)

It just didn't make any sense to me and also like said earlier in my OP, his lawyer isn't exactly the best with communication and the whole situation is just odd. I'm not sure why they would be filing for custody or visitation when they all live together and no one's had any issues and such. But I'm sure it will get sorted out one way or another.

And although my relationship isn't exactly on trial here.... again, been eleven years with one mishap of this with him and the (ex)wife. We had our issues due to the fact of distance with we met young then he joined the Army and when I moved closer he had to move back for family obligations and so on. The two of them hated each other when they met, when they got married, it was all out spite for other people.... being young and dumb. There is no love between them, never has been. Their whole relationship everyone who cared about him was telling him not to do it and afterwards to leave. She became a drunk and drug addict, she was abusive, she lied, stole, and cheated on him. So he is trying to get back to the life he wanted and so am I.

I get that it is "proper" to wait a year before dating again, be with one person for a few months as your rebound, then someone else for six months, then find someone after that and date them no less than a year before asking them to marry you, then give it a year to plan... I get that this is typical protocol. But then again I don't see how we should be punished just to follow along with it. We've been trying to have a life together for 11 years and finally the stars aligned for the most part to make it happen. He asked me in December with plans to wed this coming one. Which he even asked me unofficially the second month he came back into my life which was a year and a half prior to the whole down on one knee and giving a ring proper proposal. There's not a single person who knows us, knows our story, has seen us together, has seen what he went through, what I went through who has said a word against it. So maybe it's not the ideal way to happen but we're making it just that.

And the issue of a child. I was pregnant though had an early miscarriage. To him, there is a big difference in having a child with someone you love. He was bouncing off the walls, over the moon, been saying he wants a child since I basically met him. He just doesn't want THAT child. Is the way it seems and everyone else takes it as and either ignores or accepts. And if the day ever came where I was to have a child......... I would make sure it is what we both wanted. And if things went wrong I would not ask him for child support though I know he'd go out of his way to make sure I was taken care of. As he always has. Even when he was married, he went out of his way to make sure I was alright.

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He doesn't want anything to do with the child. And the moral issues behind it are not so much what I was trying to bring up and cause an issue by any means. Yes, I know a lot of people take issue with it. But maybe I just get it. If I had a child with someone I did not want to have a child with, I would have aborted it. He tried to get her to and wishes she had. But it's not the case. So you have an option to either learn to care or you don't.

I don't want the child in our lives. I don't wish anything bad to happen to her like he does and hopes she ends up with a beautiful, wonderful life. But I don't care about her or want anything to do with her. And many people frown on that as well. But there's plenty of people out there who do not date people because they have a child or if they do want nothing to do with the previous relationship baggae. Sort of a "You're not mine. I do not love you. I am not responsible for you. I don't have an inkling to protect you if something were to happen." It's just one of those situations for me.

But what he feels and what I feel isn't against the law, it isn't being questioned by anybody in this. We have just been trying to figure out what is going on with everything and maybe get some insight onto this whole situation. =)

[Dogmatique]

Oh, he loved her enough to shtup her while they were separated and impregnate her.

Good luck. He needs an attorney.

That's all, really.

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Oh - and congratulations to him. He's also the legal (presumed) father of the cousin's child...

[whispers]

Oh, he loved her enough to shtup her while they were separated and impregnate her.

Good luck. He needs an attorney.

That's all, really.

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Oh - and congratulations to him. He's also the legal (presumed) father of the cousin's child...

Impregnation has nothing to do with love. Being with someone technically doesn't have anything to do with love.

He has an attorney and hopefully will be in contact again soon to give details and until then we will all keep researching ourselves as well.

Yes, he is the presumed father but thankfully so far no real legal action has been brought up about that.

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Oh, he loved her enough to shtup her while they were separated and impregnate her.

Good luck. He needs an attorney.

That's all, really.

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Oh - and congratulations to him. He's also the legal (presumed) father of the cousin's child...

Also, he isn't on the birth certificate for the second child she had with her cousin. So he has no legal ties to it. He's already brought that up with the attorney and the court.

[FatherWhoWon]

Yes, he is going to abandon his child. Yes, I am more than okay with it if that is what he chooses to do. And in fact, he hates the child's existance so staying in her life and resenting her doesn't seem like a better option. He wishes she'd been aborted, supported the idea, has no emotional connect to her, wishes nothing but the worst on her soif that is how he feels staying away from her is probably the better option.

I know the OP "explained" this in some detail, but I still can't wrap my head around it. Regardless of how he feels about the situation, the child, who has no control herself over any aspect of the situation, will grow into adulthood knowing that not only did her father not want her, in fact he despised her.

I still think OP should run as fast as she can. Maybe one day she'll realize the gravity of that and understand that was the best thing to do.

I hope this child gets the support she is going to need to deal with her father's abandonment.

[Dogmatique]

Impregnation has nothing to do with love. Being with someone technically doesn't have anything to do with love.

He has an attorney and hopefully will be in contact again soon to give details and until then we will all keep researching ourselves as well.

Yes, he is the presumed father but thankfully so far no real legal action has been brought up about that.

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Also, he isn't on the birth certificate for the second child she had with her cousin. So he has no legal ties to it. He's already brought that up with the attorney and the court.

I don't think you really know half of what is actually going on (you obviously don't understand the concept of the presumptive father, for one thing). You're blinded by whatever it is, and your thoughts - as well as his - about his child speak very clearly. Perhaps the two of you deserve each other with such selfishness - I don't know. But I can't help but think you've been played, and have been played for a long, long time.

And yes - I think you should run as fast as you can. But you likely won't listen to a couple of strangers on the internet, especially after you've been waiting in the wings for so long. Let's face it, if he wanted to be with you during these 11 years, he would have figured it out by now. You're his reliable piece of whatever, there whenever he wants. No commitment necessary.

So, you've been told that he needs to talk to his attorney and that's really the bottom line.

This isn't your legal matter, when all is said and done.

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I know the OP "explained" this in some detail, but I still can't wrap my head around it. Regardless of how he feels about the situation, the child, who has no control herself over any aspect of the situation, will grow into adulthood knowing that not only did her father not want her, in fact he despised her.

I still think OP should run as fast as she can. Maybe one day she'll realize the gravity of that and understand that was the best thing to do.

I hope this child gets the support she is going to need to deal with her father's abandonment.

Agreed wholeheartedly. But think about it - he's played her for 11 years...abandoning a child is nothing. There's no commitment in his mind.

He's a player.

[whispers]

I don't think you really know half of what is actually going on (you obviously don't understand the concept of the presumptive father, for one thing). You're blinded by whatever it is, and your thoughts - as well as his - about his child speak very clearly. Perhaps the two of you deserve each other with such selfishness - I don't know. But I can't help but think you've been played, and have been played for a long, long time.

And yes - I think you should run as fast as you can. But you likely won't listen to a couple of strangers on the internet, especially after you've been waiting in the wings for so long. Let's face it, if he wanted to be with you during these 11 years, he would have figured it out by now. You're his reliable piece of whatever, there whenever he wants. No commitment necessary.

So, you've been told that he needs to talk to his attorney and that's really the bottom line.

This isn't your legal matter, when all is said and done.

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Agreed wholeheartedly. But think about it - he's played her for 11 years...abandoning a child is nothing. There's no commitment in his mind.

He's a player.

I do understand what a presumed father is and have talked in depth with him and his attorney about in the event it would be used against him. Which, his attorney has made clear it would not be due to the fact he was not on any documentation for the second child and he did not play a role as a father to the child at any point. I understand the surface of things make it to be any child the wife has becomes the husband's responsibility even if it not theirs biologically in many states. I was not disputing that in any way. But it has been brought up with an attorney and the judge and he has no ties to that child whatsoever. So I didn't feel the need to go on and on about something completely irrelevant.

I am not blinded by anything, and I don't see how anyone's feelings on the matter applies to the topic at hand. This was just asking a simple question about the law, looking for answers, trying to learn more about a situation I found myself somewhat a part of. Like my fiancee is having surgery next week. What did I do? I talked with him about it, his doctors, and then I continued to search for my information about it and I asked questions. I like to be informed.

And I do not understand how I'm supposed to be selfish and being played. I mean, there's a handful of paragraphs about a topic not even really about my relationship at any point, so making judgements out of nothing. Which again has nothing to do with anything about this post. And actually, distance was a great matter at hand given he was in the military and out of the country. And yes, he could have went AWOL to be with me but I don't see how that would have helped nor do I see that as love. I had family obligations and so did he in his life. Things happen in people's lives.

That's like me going on to every person's post on here and going well if you wanted your child you would have them, or you would have made it work with he parent, obviously you didn't so go off yourself. Think you need to step down from your pedestal my friend. Not trying to be rude by any means, just seems your being judemental just to be judgemental. Imposing your feelings on something you know nothing about.

You have stated several times he needs to talk to his attorney. I got it. And he has and he will continue to. Thank you. Just like every single other person on here. They need to talk to an attorney and not a bunch of people online first and foremost. And most of them will do just that. The point of forums is to get prior or more information besides the obvious. But thank you.

Also, I was 13 when I met him. I don't think we were in a rush to get married nor do I think the long factor of us knowing each other but not having settled together just yet as "being played." He asked me to marry him years ago but I wasn't ready. Now, I'm at the point in my life and in our relationship where I feel it is the right time and ready to take those steps. I moved myself across the country, I bought a house with him, I live with him, I have been planning a wedding with him and only his family. He's done nothing but be there for me my whole life in one way or another. When he got married he got my name tattooed on him, he bought me a house when the first got married so I had a place to stay and call my own, he kept in touch with people in my life to make sure I was doing well. He's done nothing but be the most perfect person in the world to me for the past two years. He's never done anything wrong towards me, he's invited me into his family who all accepted me and I am around constantly and been to every holiday or family event, proposed to me and has done nothing but try and give us the life we want. So yeah, I really see how you're getting this. Uh huh.

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I know the OP "explained" this in some detail, but I still can't wrap my head around it. Regardless of how he feels about the situation, the child, who has no control herself over any aspect of the situation, will grow into adulthood knowing that not only did her father not want her, in fact he despised her.

I still think OP should run as fast as she can. Maybe one day she'll realize the gravity of that and understand that was the best thing to do.

I hope this child gets the support she is going to need to deal with her father's abandonment.

Yes, it is sad. Yes, it is not the best of situations. Yes, most people's moral codes send them into overdrive. The child is an innocent party in this. She did not ask to be born. She did not ask for a drug addict mother and father who despises her. No one is questioning that or arguing that.

At the end of the day, if the child - if ANY child - is better off with someone else for ANY reason, they should be with someone else. Everybody would agree on this I would like to think. So he knows he is not the best option for her, for whatever reason, so here's to hoping she ends up in such.

[asulover]

Any person that "despises" a child that is half his is a awful person in my eyes. I hope this man ends up paying a large sum of his montly check to the child (which he will be required to pay support) and she sees him and you for the awful people you are when she is old enough.

[whispers]

Any person that "despises" a child that is half his is a awful person in my eyes. I hope this man ends up paying a large sum of his montly check to the child (which he will be required to pay support) and she sees him and you for the awful people you are when she is old enough.

I don't see how that was help or informative but okay.

He is not losing any money given his situation. But thanks for the awesomeness?