Firearms Rights Restoration After Involuntary Mental Health Commitment

[Wannabee]

My question involves public health law in the State of: California I wannabee informed...

I would like my rights to own, possess, control a firearm restored primarily based on principal, secondarily based on the idea that employers running DOJ FBI background checks will note my status and realize that since there are no felony convictions or allegations on my record that I must have been a patient in a psychiatric facility and therefore I would not be considered for employment and tertiary reasoning is that I may share a house with someone that owns a firearm or I may in fact want one for myself if I ever live in a very rural/wilderness setting alone or otherwise. I have never owned a firearm. I have shot skeet three times and a handgun twice at a range, all of that was years ago and someone elses' gun.

I understand the State has prohibited anyone adjudicated as a mental health patient to be precluded from owning, purchasing or receiving a "firearm" as defined in Penal Code 16590 for a period of five years. I think that is for 5150 or voluntary admission. Is it different for 5250 or involuntary persons? I think the time limit is the same, five years.

My question really is about having a hearing to get that lifted at the STATE level, in other words in the Superior Court (LA). I have the form to request such a hearing. I spoke to the DA that handles the mental health petitions. He told me the hearing would include me showing up with sealed records (I opened the envelopes and said as much and then he said, "well just present to the court that they are accurate and not tampered with and I'm sure they will accept that,"), witnesses either in person or by phone and letters from witnesses and that I would be examined by a psychiatrist. All that would be considered by the judge and a decision would be made as to whether or not my rights would be restored.

Reading the Welfare and Institutions Code of Ca, section 8100-8108 I note that it all seems pretty hopeful that I may have success at this hearing until I get to 8103 9 g (1)wherein it states in part that, no person who has been certified for intensive treatment under Section 5250, 5260, or 5270.15 shall own, possess, control, receive, or purchase any firearm for a period of five years. ...."

So, does that mean it is fruitless to attempt success at such a hearing if one has been held on involuntary 5250 hold as opposed to the voluntary 5150 hold?

As a matter of fact.... I did go voluntarily to the hospital (twice, Aug.20 10 and Oct 2010) for help and ask for help however both times the staff claimed the admission was involuntary due to my waivering the first time and I did waiver back and say I would accept the help if my friend could visit me there, they said, "too late, " it was their idea to do an involuntary one and two months later my psych admitted my involuntarily so I would "not have to stay in the ER" for a long time waiting for a bed, and so even though I went to her and told her I was shaking for four days straight.... I actually have no mental problem, I am not on Meds, I was on stuff from 8-2010 to early Dec 2010 and stopped on my own due to increased anxiety and insomnia brought on by the meds... my problem was that I was scared, I was a victim of adult bullying and I was very frightened. That is why I was admitted, why I went there in the first place shall we say.

Now I don't know how to get this restriction lifted FOR SURE, I have tried to find an attorney, no luck there, I have no idea where to look for one, the web searches come up with phone bank services that connect me to people that sound like they're in a cave and they want me to fax my records and pay $5,000. up front...

It seems the Federal Government will make that a lifetime restriction BASED ON THE STATE'S determination, if the state has lifted the restriction then the Federal Gov. does not have one. If someone committs a Federal Crime then there is a lifetime restriction.

What is a girl to do?

Thank You

[Mr. Knowitall]

If you are asking whether people who are involuntarily committed for mental health treatment can regain their firearms rights more quickly than those who voluntarily seek help, no, they cannot.

[Conrad Hunter]

First, restoring rights to own firearms are discussed here alot but they almost never ever happen in the real world. Doing it in the case of a mental health committment would be even more difficult and would involve hearings with expert witnesses, etc. It would cost a literal fortune to even try. Worse, all court hearings are public record. Perhaps in CA you can get it sealed, but that is also expensive. Here in FL it was easy for many years, but now, next to impossible. It even requires a notice posted on the courthouse door (literally) and a rehearing every 30 days.

Secondly, no employer should see any mental health committments in a background search. There are privacy laws that can be enforced if that should happen. The background check that is done when someone tries to purchase a firearm is a very specific NCIC search, for that purpose, of databases that no private individual has access too. There is no public access to NCIC criminal history files. SCOTUS has ruled it is an illegal invasion of privacy.

[Wannabee]

that is not my question. My question is: In California is it possible that they hearings one is allowed to request for restoration of rights a venue that holds potential for success for those held on a 5250 (involuntary hold) violation as a opposed to 5150, (voluntary hold). The law seems to draw a line that those involuntarily held have no recourse whereas those held voluntarily do have the avenue of petitioning the court by requesting a hearing. The restriction is supposed to last 5 years either way, I understand the law to read that those on a 5150 may petition to have it lifted sooner than that, but those with a 5250 may not be able to have it lifted sooner.

I did present at my own will, I went voluntarily but the staff converted the admission to an involuntary status without regard to the impact that would have on me in the long term, IE, just so I would get a bed sooner, "they will keep you in ER longer if they know you can leave whenever you want," I was told. So, I am thinking now of requesting a hearing, but the goal will be to establish that I presented voluntarily....otherwise I don't think the law allows for a lifting sooner than 5 years.

The form to request a hearing has a place to check so that one may request the hearing to be public or private.

The background checks that many employers run now incluce DOJ and FBI background checks. The "STATUS" of whether or not one may own, posess, control or purchase a firearm is contained in such reports. Given that I have no felony record, there is only one other reason that a person would have that status and that is ADJUDICATED AS A MENTAL HEALTH PATIENT

that is my concern
I am pretty sure I was passed over for a position by an employer due to this happening already

I am not on meds, I have no mental illness
I don't really want to buy a firearm soon, probably never in fact. I may live with someone sometime that owns, I just want the choice....etc.

Mostly, I just want my STATUS to be clear.

THANK YOU KINDLY FOR YOUR INPUT

[cdwjava]

First off, W&I 5150 deals with INVOLUNTARY commitments for a 72-hour evaluation. W&I 5250 deals with certification for treatment of up to 14 days. Neither of these is for "voluntary" commitments as this is generally described as in-patient services.

A typical employer background check will NOT result in any mention whatsoever of a mental health commitment. The database used for mental health commitments is restricted even from law enforcement - the chance of a private employer finding out from the government is pretty slim. Unless you are an applicant for law enforcement or a security clearance, this is not likely to come up. However, friends or family members can certainly let the cat out of the bag by telling an investigator that you were once committed to a mental institution.

[Wannabee]

Thank you cdwjava for the reply. I will review the 5150 and 5250 descriptions in the Welfare Code 8100, etc. I am not clear on that, obviously.

The current background checks that Whole Foods does include DOJ and FBI checks according to an acquaintance that went through that process. As for my own application it was not security or law enforcement but it was a very responsible postition that would reasonably require a thorough check.

I understand health records are protected. That is not what I am concerned about.

The STATUS of owning purchasing, controlling a firearm is my concern. When that shows up in a background check without a felony conviction it is pretty obvious that there is a mental health history. No medical records need to be mentioned or released, it is obvious. There are only two reasons to be prohibited from owning a firearm. No felony = mentally adjudicated.

That is why I want to have the restriction lifted sooner than five years. I was not and I am not mentally ill. I want to get a job. No one will consider hiring me over other candidates that do not have such status. I am prepared to file for a private hearing. I am concerned that the involuntary status of the admission precludes the court from allowing a release of restriction.

I have called around to lawyers and heard fees of $7500, and little hope.
I spoke to the DA and he said I could go pro per. Submit medical records, be evaluated by court psychiatrist that would do eval on the spot, I could provide witnesses in person, in writing, via phone. The point of the hearing would be to determine if I am a harm to others/myself...not whether or not I needed to be hospitalized in the first place. He made it sound very straightforward.

Then I read the law as stated in thread at the outset and found a concern based on that paragraph that distinguishes 5150 and 5250 and the possibility of being relieved of prohibition ....

I just want a clear status that is all I want, sooner than 5 years I need to proceed pro per, I have no cash to hire professional help

thank you everyone for contemplating these questions

[cdwjava]

Thank you cdwjava for the reply. I will review the 5150 and 5250 descriptions in the Welfare Code 8100, etc. I am not clear on that, obviously.

The current background checks that Whole Foods does include DOJ and FBI checks according to an acquaintance that went through that process. As for my own application it was not security or law enforcement but it was a very responsible postition that would reasonably require a thorough check.

A typical DOJ and FBI check through the use of your fingerprints will NOT result in notice that you have ever been committed to a mental health facility as they use entirely different databases.

The STATUS of owning purchasing, controlling a firearm is my concern. When that shows up in a background check without a felony conviction it is pretty obvious that there is a mental health history.

But, they are not running records for eligibility to possess a firearm, so no clearance document will be forwarded to the potential employer.

The DOJ and FBI scans that are made from your livescan will concern only CRIMINAL violations, not firearms eligibility. There should be no reason why a prospective employer might get a notice from the DOJ indicating you are not eligible to possess a firearm.

[Conrad Hunter]

First, a NCIC criminal history background is not available to any private party. Employment checks that are run through the FBI for certain types of employment are limited. I know someone who gave fingerprints and had a background check run through the Sheriff for a job with DCF, Department of Children and Families, and convictions in another state long ago did not come back on the report because none of them were of the type that would prohibit employment with DCF.

[Wannabee]

Re cdwjava reply:

Okay, good to know.

I have been concerned over this issue as I attempt to re-enter the work force. The whole fiasco was unfortunate. The experience of being bullied as an adult is what led to the hospitalization and I really resent having my rights restricted. I am trying to justify the process of having the hearing by stating job eligibility, I really just don't want the restriction there. What if I'm ever in a place under circumstances that a weapon exists and ....nevermind. I just don't want this on my record in any way. I may marry a man with weapons, I may be in a place....yadda. I just don't like this cloud over me.

My real hope is that I can have a hearing and get it cleared.

5150, 5250.... what gives, any hope, any advice to proceed.... I'm looking at doing house shares with someone, I have to clear whether or not they own guns and how they secure them and then if an issue ever comes up, would the house be subjected to a search because I'm there....

I am just very very very much about following the rules. I don't want any trouble, I have not had a roomate or been one for years... so that is the other current concern.

This cloud is bigger than I ever knew once I start thinking about it.

Thank you very much java

[cdwjava]

The letter the prospective employer will receive from the DOJ would simply indicate whether or not there exists disqualifying convictions, it will not list any and all convictions as this information is largely protected pursuant to CA state law. Mental health information is very strictly protected and inaccessible to even law enforcement without jumping through some serious hoops. Private parties, almost no way. I'm an NCIC/CLETS instructor and even I could not readily obtain that information.