LIDAR Ticket King County, Washington

[bahl]

My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Washington

I delivered a discovery request using blewis's template. The PA gave me just the Officer's report. The PA's notice states I can inspect Speeding measuring certificates per IRLJ 6.6(d) in the Courtroom. Does that mean I'll have to go to Issaquah to obtain the certs? Here's the officer's statement although I'm sure it provides little:

LIDAR-

I observed the defendant approaching my location in excess of of the posted 35 MPH limit. I obtained a reading of 49 MPH on def's vehicle at 509 feet. The LTI 20-20/Kustom Pro Laser II/Laser III SMD, #4169 has been certified by the factory and WSP technicians to be in good working order. At the beginning of my shift the LASER SMD's accuracy was checked by (1) internal self-diagnostic test, (2) scope alignment test, and (3) fixed distance/velocity test at 100 ft. I have been trained in the use/operation of the SMD device.



Thanks

[free9man]

IS that the officer's entire statement? If so, the WA experts will probably be able to pick it apart as it seems...lacking.

[Speedy Gonzalez]

Please scan/photograph the entire discovery response and post it to a picture hosting site, then post the link here. Of course, redact your personal information and the last few digits of the infraction number.

[BrendanjKeegan]

"Your honor, the officer states that the device has been checked for accuracy but does not state the results of these checks. I move to dismiss as there is no statement from the witness as to the accuracy of the device."

...These guys just keep getting lazier and lazier...

[bahl]

This ticketing operation was as close to a ticket factory as you can get. 3 officers stood in the shoulder with speed guns and continuously pulled over motorists in this speed trap. The speed drops from 60 to 35 so it's a prime spot. I witnessed the 3 officers pull over, ticket, and then immediately pull over the next 3. The officers seemed to confer about their conquests too. I'm not sure if the officer that ticketed me was the one that gunned me. They seemed to be co-mingling their duties. I was surprised that the officer's statement is so simple. This was the full extent of the initial discovery. I haven't received the LIDAR certificates yet, please advise if I need them.

[lostintime]

You have to wonder if discovery even makes a difference. The LIDAR guns are always in working/current order it seems. Even if they weren't - the template where the officer fills in the blanks, has already declared the device as being tested and functioning properly.

As for the "LIDAR certificates". Not sure what difference that makes as well. Has anyone ever gotten an expired certificate? It means nothing more than buying signed a baseball card with a certificate of authenticity.

[That Guy]

You have to wonder how ignorant you'd have to be to assume that discovery is only about the LIDAR gun and its certificate.

Personally, I wonder how many opportunities one has in a period of a year where one can learn something, or contribute anything... Instead, all that time is spent being as useless as a house fly... Buzzing around, banging your head up against any glass window you can find, and irritating everybody you come around!

[BrendanjKeegan]

HAHAHA! Are you kidding me? I know EXACTLY where they do this. They sit at the 18000 block of 522 in Bothell. There is ABSOLUTELY NO ROOM to operate LIDAR in this area. The shoulder is barely enough to park a car in. I remember driving by a couple weeks ago, seeing them there and saying, "Hmm... they must be using Radar, because there is no way you cold use Lidar in this area."

You're golden in Issaquah without the results of the accuracy checks.

Oh, and if you get Judge LaSalata, definitely tell him (after your case is dismissed) that this is an uphill slope, in a curve, and that you think these officers do not know what they're doing if they're using LIDAR because you can't think of any greater place where sweep effect could be more prominent.

I can't even believe this. *Shakes head* WSP REALLY IS THIS LAZY!

[lostintime]

You have to wonder how ignorant you'd have to be to assume that discovery is only about the LIDAR gun and its certificate.

Personally, I wonder how many opportunities one has in a period of a year where one can learn something, or contribute anything... Instead, all that time is spent being as useless as a house fly... Buzzing around, banging your head up against any glass window you can find, and irritating everybody you come around!

Proof of training...traffic surveys? Maybe a certificate from LTI saying the device passed quality control (like they would ever say otherwise)? Are those supposed to be magical now?

The case report has declared the LIDAR devices to already be working - via use of a template. It's not like the individual officer actually typed it, it's simply fill-in-the-blank. Essentially - the devices cannot be challenged.

[Speedy Gonzalez]

Has anyone ever gotten an expired certificate?

Yes, in fact we have. Many times. My last ticket was dismissed over the LIDAR's re-certification period AS THE STATE PATROL DEFINES IT having being expired. They state "a minimum of once every two years". If they aren't complying with their own testing program, then the device cannot be authenticated as reliable. This is simple logic. Not every officer gives a rip about whether the unit is within the last testing period or not. 99% of people never challenge a ticket. The 1% that do? 99% of them don't know that if the cert is expired that you can get the case dismissed. Not to poke you in the eye with a stick or anything, but it seems you're not to grasping the concept.

It means nothing more than buying signed a baseball card with a certificate of authenticity.

Yes, and just like baseball cards without the certificate of authenticity they aren't worth the paper they are printed on. A LIDAR without a current cert is bogus in EVERY LAST COURT in Washington. Period.