Left Turn Onto Same Road

[lostowl]

it did not dawn on me at the time to tell the trooper it was the same road. but i was driving on westly street in west warwick and it makes an almost 90 degree turn left with no stop sign where another road meets it with a stop sign from the right but kinda like a fork in the road angle.

i was wondering if i need to use a turn signal from westly street to westly street because it is a sharp corner. i was thinking of bringing a google map to show the judge

and if the judge does throw it out can i could get around the court costs?

thank you for you're time

[That Guy]

it did not dawn on me at the time to tell the trooper it was the same road. but i was driving on westly street in west warwick and it makes an almost 90 degree turn left with no stop sign where another road meets it with a stop sign from the right but kinda like a fork in the road angle.

i was wondering if i need to use a turn signal from westly street to westly street because it is a sharp corner. i was thinking of bringing a google map to show the judge

Are we to assume that you were cited for not signalling a turn?

If so, is this the statute/code section you were cited for: "§ 31-16-5 Turn signal required"?

If so, here is what the code section states:

§ 31-16-5 Turn signal required.

– No person shall turn a vehicle at an intersection unless the vehicle is in proper position upon the roadway as required in §§ 31-16-2 and 31-16-3, or turn a vehicle to enter a private road or driveway, or otherwise turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway, unless and until the movement can be made with reasonable safety. No person shall so turn any vehicle without giving an appropriate signal in the manner described in this chapter in the event any other traffic may be affected by the movement. Violations of this section are subject to fines enumerated in § 31-41.1-4.

History of Section.
(P.L. 1950, ch. 2595, art. 27, § 4; G.L. 1956, § 31-16-5; P.L. 2002, ch. 292, § 111.)

So, if you intend on turning your vehicle you have to meet 3 conditions:
1) You have to be in proper position as required under §§ 31-16-2 and 31-16-3;
2) You have to make sure you're makng such movement with reasonable safety; and
3) You have to signal your intention to turn for at least the last 100 feet before the turn (as required by § 31-16-6 Time of signaling turn and your signal shall follow the methods described in § 31-16-8 Method of giving signals.

Important note is that the law does not really specify that it only applies if you're turning from one street onto another... As long as it is a turn, a signal is required!


This would also apply in the case of changing a lane. Even though you are staying on the same roadway but changing from lane #2 to lane #1, you still are required to signal your lane change!

It is also conceivable that the officer cited you in violation of code § 31-16-6, but if I were to put money on it, I'd say it was for § 31-16-5...

and if the judge does throw it out can i could get around the court costs?

If you are found not guilty, you would not have to pay court costs.... Although based on what you've stated here, it is not likely that you will be found "not guilty"!

Sorry!

[flyingron]

Unfortunately Google doesn't have a street view of that intersection, so it's hard to tell. Just because a street name follows a turn, doesn't mean the rules for the intersection assume it's not a turn. Does vine street have a stop sign?

[PTPD22]

§ 31-16-5 Turn signal required.

– No person shall turn a vehicle at an intersection unless the vehicle is in proper position upon the roadway as required in §§ 31-16-2 and 31-16-3, or turn a vehicle to enter a private road or driveway, or otherwise turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway, unless and until the movement can be made with reasonable safety. No person shall so turn any vehicle without giving an appropriate signal in the manner described in this chapter in the event any other traffic may be affected by the movement. Violations of this section are subject to fines enumerated in § 31-41.1-4.

...
Important note is that the law does not really specify that it only applies if you're turning from one street onto another... As long as it is a turn, a signal is required!

Hummm...it's obviously a hyper-technical question. But, I'm not sure that I agree a signal is required under OP's stated circumstances. The statute actually says, "turn a vehicle at an intersection...or turn a vehicle to enter a private road or driveway, or otherwise turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway..." I'm thinking that the officer is going to say that this was a turn at an intersection. However, since it is actually just a curve in the road (regardless of how sharp the curve), it seems like it should be treated the same as the through portion of a "T" intersection (since the intersecting street has a stop sign). If OP can convince a judge that this is the case, then the argument becomes - does going around a curve in the road constitute turning "from a direct course?" It seems reasonable to me to argue that it does not...of course, it's what the judge finds reasonable that counts.

[That Guy]

Hummm...it's obviously a hyper-technical question. But, I'm not sure that I agree a signal is required under OP's stated circumstances. The statute actually says, "turn a vehicle at an intersection...or turn a vehicle to enter a private road or driveway, or otherwise turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway..." I'm thinking that the officer is going to say that this was a turn at an intersection. However, since it is actually just a curve in the road (regardless of how sharp the curve), it seems like it should be treated the same as the through portion of a "T" intersection (since the intersecting street has a stop sign). If OP can convince a judge that this is the case, then the argument becomes - does going around a curve in the road constitute turning "from a direct course?" It seems reasonable to me to argue that it does not...of course, it's what the judge finds reasonable that counts.

It is a matter of interpretation...

Here is a question to help clarify my point: Let us assume that you are a driver who is familiar with the area... If you were driving behind me, and I was turning onto vine st (the other street) would you expect me to signal my turn? I assume by what you posted, the answer is "yes"... Now assume that you are not familiar with the area and have no clue which is the continuation of the same street and which is a different street, you'd expect me to signal my intention to turn on either streets either way, correct?

In fact, lets forget about the fork in the road. Instead, let us assume it was a 4 lane road (2 lane in each direction). Am I expected to signal an intent to change course (i.e. switching lanes)? The answer is invariably "yes"! Isn't it?

In other words, (and this maybe an argument that lostowl may want to look into) the intent of the law (at least the way I see it) is that a driver must signal their intention to change course on a roadway (even if it is a lane change away from an intersection) in case another vehicle may be affected by that movement. If there is no one else around, heck, do a donut or two before you turn, no one is going to care!

If the officer was not close to where this turn happened, then I think that argument might work to at least mitigate the result!

[PTPD22]

Yeah, I see your argument and agree that it is a reasonable interpretation…it just seems to me that an alternate argument is also reasonable. Changing lanes would constitute “or move right or left upon a roadway.” So, that’s a little different. I would simply argue that following a curve in the road does not constitute “otherwise turn a vehicle from a direct course.” But, unless there is case law on point, it is what a judge sees as reasonable that counts.

[lostowl]

from a direct course

i think this is the argument i will use if the trooper dont want to throw it out when i give him a copy of the map befor court

for map look up a short intersecting street knight st 02893. if you zoom in far enough it will be marked westly st on both sides of the corner

thank you all for you're time


*edit* also i think Vine st was added in the 30's or 40's when a mill burnt down and Westly street been there since the 1800's

[Speedy Gonzalez]

From what I see on the map you need to use your turn signal. Why? Because you COULD turn either direction if you're going Southeast on the short part of Westley between Oak and Vine. What if you had turned left onto Vine?