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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    3

    Default Speeding Ticket in a Senior Center, VC 22350

    My question involves traffic court in the State of:

    about three months ago, a police officer issued me a ticket for speeding 44 at 25pmh senior center zone. He used Lidar detector. On the ticket, he accidentally for to put "ave" in the location of violation. and one tricky thing is that if check in map, you actually can see the senior center sign in front of you if you standing on the location that he indicated in the ticket. so technically, the location that he put on the ticket is not a part of senior center.

    during the trial, i argued these two points. At the same time, i pointed out that the road on the senior center is not straight. that means the 44mph is not my actual speed.

    But the judge still found me guilty eventually, even though i thought i had a good argument. I am planning to file an appeal. any suggestions?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in a Senior Center, VC 22350

    What exactly are you using as a basis for your appeal?

    First, traffic laws apply regardless if you're in a parking lot or not; arguing that the CVC doesn't apply isn't going to work.

    Second, LIDAR doesn't work by measuring distance; it measures the car's speed itself by how fast it takes for the light to reflect back.
    ------------------------------
    The best defence I see you have is using the statute itself(22350:"driving @ speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property"). Did the officer present some kind of speed survey?

    Unless the officer cited you for 22358.4, he needs to present some kind of proof establishing that you were driving at unsafe speed if he cited you at 22350.

    I could be wrong though. Perhaps someone can qualify/debunk this argument...?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    3

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in a Senior Center, VC 22350

    I understand that Lidar is used for speed measurement. I am just saying that based on its principle, Lidar should be used in straight lane instead of curved road. that would cause inaccurate result.

    and the location is the senior center. that should be 25mph. i do not think any survey is going to help. because it does not apply in senior center.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
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    9,175

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in a Senior Center, VC 22350

    Quote Quoting bettycqlcs
    View Post
    I understand that Lidar is used for speed measurement. I am just saying that based on its principle, Lidar should be used in straight lane instead of curved road. that would cause inaccurate result.
    Well, simply claiming that the road is a curve, therefore the speed measurement was made at an angle and therefore it is inaccurate is NOT going to get you a whole lotta beans. Here is a table published by the National Highway traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) showing the Actual Speed versus the measured speed.



    If I may quote that, it says: "Loosely speaking, the angular effect is not significant as long as the angle itself remains small".

    Looking at the table, you can see that (for example) the 50mph speed, does not become significantly off until after the angle gets larger than 15 degrees.

    At 15 degrees the difference is 50mph - 48.30mph = 1.70mph which is really small margin of error!

    But that is not all... what you are probably not realizing, is that *IF* the angle had affected the speed reading, it would have done so in your favor as opposed to the other way around. Meaning, if the officer actually got a reading of 44mph and the LIDAR beam was at 20 degrees, your actual REAL speed at the time was 47 mph... If the angle was 30 degrees, your REAL speed at the time was 50.8mph...

    So it works to benefit YOU if the measurement occurred at an angle!


    Quote Quoting bettycqlcs
    View Post
    and the location is the senior center. that should be 25mph. i do not think any survey is going to help. because it does not apply in senior center.
    So he measured your speed at 44, the posted speed is 25, this was in front of a senior center which would not require that the prosecution justify the speed limit by an Engineering and traffic Survey, only show that it is in a senior zone...

    The 25mph speed limit is not set by an Engineering And Traffic Survey, instead, the state legislature declared a senior zone speed limit to be 25mph. So even if there is a survey and even if it showed a critical speed of 38, or 43... The speed limit on the segment where the senior zone is will still be posted at 25mph!

    How does that provide you with grounds for an appeal fro being convicted? I am not getting it!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in a Senior Center, VC 22350

    Thanks for ur information.

    I understand this is not a speed trap. because a lot of people say it is, so i was wondering if it can be a defense.

    But on the ticket, the officer did not actually write down the complete location of violation. the location he wrote actually does not exist on the map. can I use this to dismiss my case?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,175

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in a Senior Center, VC 22350

    Quote Quoting bettycqlcs
    View Post
    I understand this is not a speed trap. because a lot of people say it is, so i was wondering if it can be a defense.
    Not sure if that is a question... But let me add this tidbit. Senior zones AND School zones are both prima facie speed limits but rather than having them established via an E & T Survey, they are established and set by statute at 25mph (See VC 22352). Meaning there is no requirement to conduct an E & T Survey to justify that limit. However, a Senior zone is even more strict than a school zone simply because the 25mph speed limit is applicable and valid 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year; whereas most school zones are at a 25mph speed limit "When Children Are Present", all other times it could still be at 25mph if it is a residential or business district, however, the local authority can conduct an E & T survey to establish a higher limit if that might meet the needs of the local community! That would be similar to the way other speed limits are established.... See 22357.

    BTW, as far as schools zones are concerned, they maybe set to a 15mph limit as well. You can see all speed setting relted questions under: CALIFORNIA VEHICLE CODE SECTIONS 22348-22366


    Quote Quoting bettycqlcs
    View Post
    But on the ticket, the officer did not actually write down the complete location of violation. the location he wrote actually does not exist on the map. can I use this to dismiss my case?
    it may be impossible to answer that question simply based on "general information" you're providing... If you don't mind being more specific, then give us the name on the intersection, indicate the direction of travel, and then type in the actual location as written by the officer on your citation. And we'll go from there!

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