Jurisdiction for an International Custody and Child Support Case

[nmkinbox]

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: CA, NJ


Dear Thread,

Please help. I am a US citizen of Vietnamese decent, and a residence of NJ. My partner is Vietnamese and gained citizenship via a "questionable" marriage and is a "residence" of CA, her time in the US was from 2007 to 2010, her marriage was with someone else.

I met her in Vietnam in 2005 and rekindled when she came to the States. Long story short, we had moved back to Vietnam in 2008 to live together and grow a business in which I did all the funding into it (guess how that ended up). Luckily I never went through with a marriage license with her. However we have a child together, born in February of 2011 in Vietnam.

Long story short once she had my child and saw how utterly in love I was with him, she slipped and let me become aware of the utter dishonesty deception and conniving on her part. Due to the fact that I was aware of her deception, and that she could no longer manipulate me emotionally, she used our son and took him away from me when he was only 3 months old. She did his birth certificate without my name as his father. She has both Vietnamese and US citizenship and tells me she was also able to get both Vietnamese and US citizenship for our son. I don't know if that is true or not. Since then she has tried to use our son to manipulate me, and drive me insane with grief. In emails she will say nice things, but off record she will say if I don't do things the way she wants she will keep him away from me forever or threaten to use him to make my life miserable etc. She has also tried threatening me in other ways. Due to my ignorance of Vietnamese culture and law or lack there of, I felt it would be better if I went back to the States to restart. It has been extremely difficult for me to even speak to her since due to her deception and dishonesty.

I am back in NJ now. It has been almost 10 months since she left with him, and about 7 months since I've last held him in my arms. I'm afraid this kind of woman is uncommon. On one hand I utterly want to be my son's father, but on the other hand I am no longer willing to let the mother take advantage of me financially or cause harm and grief to myself or the rest of my family members. She has not openly or on record asked for child support yet, but I am trying to see what's best for me and my son in the long run, what would be the most advantageous way for me so that I might gain some legal leverage and at least joint custody of my son?

What I would like most right now is that she bring him to the States. I have been trying to find out if there is any way for me to demand this. If she is supposedly living under "US citizenship" and my son also has US citizenship do I have any rights as a US citizen to demand to be his legal father and demand that he stays in the US. She has also mentioned a few times about their Vietnamese citizenship and that she could keep him forever there if she wanted. So first this is a matter of jurisdiction. She is a "residence" of CA, I am NJ, but they both have Vietnamese and US citizenship, and they are both living and staying in Vietnam. She does occasionally come back to the States for business every 1 year or so, she has not brought my son to the US yet. Is there a time limit?

If nothing else I would like to get some professional opinions as to what my legal standing is. What my plan of action should be to be a part of my son's life. I want to know what sort of outlook I should prepare for in terms of hopes for custody, and of course child support. Should I sue for parental rights in Vietnam now? or wait until she gets to the States? Should I start some sort of action in CA so when she brings him to the States, I can demand parental rights, and he stays in the States. Is it possible to keep him in the States? Could she demand child support as a US citizen with my US salary while she keeps him in Vietnam? That would be the most unfair and unbearable condition. Recently she has said that she will let me have my name on his birth certificate once she brings him back to the States (but she won't say how long that will be), but only if I sign something stating that I can't take him away from her, whatever that means.

I understand answers about Vietnam law are out of the question, but any help would be appreciated, but please only if you have solid answers or know for sure, I have been on a wild goose chase for the past 10 months.

from a father missing his son

[Mr. Knowitall]

You told us that she resides in California and now you suggest suing her in Vietnam - she resides in one place or the other.

You will have to discuss your rights under Vietnamese law with a lawyer in Vietnam.

If you have chosen not to establish your paternity, and have chosen not to formalize your custody rights, you should do that. Unless and until you do that you don't have any rights.

If you petition to establish your rights in the U.S., you can also use the Passport Issuance Alert Program or abduction prevention programs to try to make sure that the child is not removed from the country without court approval. But if she lives in Vietnam and only visits the U.S. on occasion, it would appear that Vietnam presently has jurisdiction.

[Dogmatique]

It would appear that paternity hasn't been legally established yet; so even if Mom wanted a US passport for kiddo, given that Dad's name doesn't appear on the birth certificate, CIAP wouldn't work for Dad.


I have no idea how Dad can do this while he's here - jurisdiction does appear to be held by Vietnam. An Vietnamese attorney would probably be a good idea.

[Mr. Knowitall]

He suggests that mom has gained U.S. citizenship, and that junior may have citizenship through his mother.

But I agree - this appears to be a Vietnamese case, not a U.S. case.

[Dogmatique]

That's true - the child might have US citizenship via Mom. But the passport issue is moot; per the State Dept as the US citizen parent of a US citizen child (there might be some hoops to jump through there but let's assume that the child is considered a US citizen), all she needs to do is provide the birth certificate which shows only one parent - Mom.

This guy needs an attorney though, desperately.

[nmkinbox]

What I mean is that on her driver's license and documents in the States, her residence is in CA. But we moved back to VN in 2008 where we lived and opened up a business where she also has a Vietnamese citizenship. As I remember she would use her Vietnamese passport in VN when we entered VN. We used to travel back and forth every 5 or 6 months from VN where we stayed in US for a month and then go back to VN until about 2009-2010 where she had stayed in VN for over a year without going back to the States. As I stated she came to the US in 2007 or so, got into a questionable marriage for citizenship, and was still waiting for her divorce paperwork to finalize in CA a few months after our son was born in VN. Does the US allow its citizens to stay abroad for business for that long period of time and what about taxes?

My questions is where should I petition to establish rights? I am in NJ, she would be in CA, I guess I should find an attorney in CA to petition? So if for some reason, when she does bring our son into the US, in CA, could the US hold them in custody until my rights are established? The other complication is that she has told me many times that they both have Vietnamese citizenship as well, so what happens if they enter the US with their Vietnamese passports? Another question is that if I try to petition rights in Vietnam as a US citizen, and since our son is also supposedly a citizen, would there be ANY way for me to petition that he be brought back to the States?

So with the PIAP & APP, if I am able to establish rights, is it absolutely positively true that she cannot take our son out of the US without my or court approval?

thank you

As far as dad knows: son is born in Vietnam, there is a birth certificate done in VN that mom did without dad's name. Mom has also told dad that she was able to acquire US passport for son on her own. Dad suspects that dad's name is somehow related to son's US passport though cannot be sure. Mom has also told dad that she has done a separate US birth certificate for son without dad's help or knowledge.

If for some reason dad's name is somehow attached to son's US passport and citizenship should dad take chance with CIAP?

In response to Dogmatique :
"It would appear that paternity hasn't been legally established yet; so even if Mom wanted a US passport for kiddo, given that Dad's name doesn't appear on the birth certificate, CIAP wouldn't work for Dad.


I have no idea how Dad can do this while he's here - jurisdiction does appear to be held by Vietnam. An Vietnamese attorney would probably be a good idea."

[Dogmatique]

Where does she live year-round?

Vietnam? If that's the case, Vietnam would likely have jurisdiction.

No, the US is not going to hold her or your son in custody until your rights are established. She and your son could virtually disappear to any other state UNLESS you somehow managed to get an emergency petition preventing her from leaving the state with the child. Even then..if her home is actually in Vietnam (it doesn't matter what her driver's license or other documents say), a court order likely won't stop her.

No, it is not necessarily true that your son absolutely can be prevented from leaving the US without yours or the court's approval.


You really need an attorney - one who is versed in Vietnamese family law. We cannot answer questions pertaining to whether or not a Vietnamese court would order your ex to bring the child to the US.

Please re-read our earlier posts, too.

[nmkinbox]

In response to Dogmatique "That's true - the child might have US citizenship via Mom. But the passport issue is moot; per the State Dept as the US citizen parent of a US citizen child (there might be some hoops to jump through there but let's assume that the child is considered a US citizen), all she needs to do is provide the birth certificate which shows only one parent - Mom.

This guy needs an attorney though, desperately."

I did read on another site that it is possible for single US mom to gain citizenship for child when born abroad. But mom did many things behind dad's back without dad's knowledge or consent, if it is true that mom needed dad for any of the above paperwork then it is very possible that mom and her attorney by passed dad.

[Dogmatique]

The PIAP won't work - Dad isn't legally Dad yet. Period.

Mom is the only legal parent at the moment and, as such, can come and go as she pleases.

In response to Dogmatique "That's true - the child might have US citizenship via Mom. But the passport issue is moot; per the State Dept as the US citizen parent of a US citizen child (there might be some hoops to jump through there but let's assume that the child is considered a US citizen), all she needs to do is provide the birth certificate which shows only one parent - Mom.

This guy needs an attorney though, desperately."

I did read on another site that it is possible for single US mom to gain citizenship for child when born abroad. But mom did many things behind dad's back without dad's knowledge or consent, if it is true that mom needed dad for any of the above paperwork then it is very possible that mom and her attorney by passed dad.

Mom didn't need Dad to obtain a US passport for her child if she's a US citizen. She's the child's only legal parent, Dad is not on the birth certificate and that's enough to satisfy the State Department.

[nmkinbox]

I am trying to respond to all the replies at once:

1. Where does she live year round? I would have to say most of the time she is in Vietnam, since the business is in VN. She is there about 10 - 11 months out of 12. But how does the US view it? Is she a US residence doing business abroad, does she have to pay taxes, or is she living in VN and only coming back to US once or twice a year? & would that make a difference in the outcome of the law?

2. Ok so if I petition to gain parental rights in VN and am successful, the scenario could look like this : dad, mom, and son = US citizens, or dad = US citizen & mom & son = VN citizens , I don't know does that effect the legal outcome? Would I be able to use PIAP then? even if dad is not legally dad in the US yet? My other question would be about child support and visitation, would I have to provide 1/2 of my US salary to her while she is living in VN 10 months out of the year where the cost of living is drastically less, and I would have much more limitation on visitation.