Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1

    Default Vehicle Search Pursuant to Traffic Stop

    My question involves police conduct in the State of: OHIO

    Need help with this fact pattern: police officer sees vehicle driven by suspected drug dealer. Officer notices expired tags and hoping to find evidence of illegal activity, pulls vehicle over. Driver unable to produce license and registration. States vehicle is his mothers. No warrants on driver. Car not reported stolen. Officer asks for and gets consent to search vehicle. Finds drivers wallet and small amount of marijuana in glove box. finds bag of marijuana under drivers seat.

    Question: the expired tags seems to be a legal issue to pull a vehicle over, but when the officer stated his intent was to find evidence of drugs and that's why he pulled the driver over, does that make a difference?

    Question: not understanding how an expired registration leads to a warrantless vehicle search. Was it because he was unable to produce a license and registration?

    Question: can you give consent to search a third-party's vehicle? It was his mothers and not his.

    Question: if the search isn't valid, are the drugs fruit of the poisonous tree?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    OH10
    Posts
    15,286

    Default Re: Vehicle Search Pursuant to Traffic Stop

    I can honestly say I have never heard of a police officer pulling over a car for a valid violation, then telling the driver, whom they suspect is a drug dealer, he would never consider requesting to search the car because he might find drugs. Giving permission to search led to the warrantless search. He was in possession of the vehicle, why could he not give consent. Irrelevant, you already said the search and discovery was valid.
    Teach a man to fish, you feed a village. Give a man a fish, the ever growing village demands free fish. We will now spend trillions on social services and SSI for people who don't know how to fish.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    28,296

    Default Re: Vehicle Search Pursuant to Traffic Stop

    Question: the expired tags seems to be a legal issue to pull a vehicle over, but when the officer stated his intent was to find evidence of drugs and that's why he pulled the driver over, does that make a difference?
    no


    Question: not understanding how an expired registration leads to a warrantless vehicle search. Was it because he was unable to produce a license and registration?
    search was by permission. Nothing else is relevant.

    Question: can you give consent to search a third-party's vehicle? It was his mothers and not his.
    for practical purposes, it was his vehicle. He was in control of it so that makes it his for the purposes discussed.

    Question: if the search isn't valid, are the drugs fruit of the poisonous tree?
    the search is valid because it was by permission

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    15,355

    Default Re: Vehicle Search Pursuant to Traffic Stop

    Quote Quoting dishnetworkremote
    View Post
    Question: the expired tags seems to be a legal issue to pull a vehicle over, but when the officer stated his intent was to find evidence of drugs and that's why he pulled the driver over, does that make a difference?
    Nope. His subjective intent is irrelevant so long as there is a lawful reason to stop the vehicle and the underlying reasons is not for some unlawful purpose (such as to harass, get a phone number, or some other reason unrelated to law enforcement).

    Question: not understanding how an expired registration leads to a warrantless vehicle search. Was it because he was unable to produce a license and registration?
    No, it was because he asked for consent and received it.

    Question: can you give consent to search a third-party's vehicle? It was his mothers and not his.
    Yes, the driver can grant consent to search the vehicle he is driving.

    Question: if the search isn't valid, are the drugs fruit of the poisonous tree?
    If the search was not valid, sure. So far, it appears to be good.

    Now, if this is homework, you can look up the relevant cases to support these positions.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"


    End of Watch: Deputy Danny Oliver

    End of Watch: Detective Michael Davis, Jr.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Vehicle Search Pursuant to Traffic Stop

    Thanks for the help. You would all really enjoy the rest of the fact pattern. Ridiculous story. I'll share if asked.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: Vehicle Search Pursuant to Traffic Stop

    Question: the expired tags seems to be a legal issue to pull a vehicle over, but when the officer stated his intent was to find evidence of drugs and that's why he pulled the driver over, does that make a difference?
    No. Did he "state" his intent was to find evidence of contraband? His intent was to issue a summons for an expired tag for all he knows.
    Question: not understanding how an expired registration leads to a warrantless vehicle search. Was it because he was unable to produce a license and registration?
    An expired registration does NOT constitute reasonable grounds for a warrantless search. The officer MUST HAVE a warrant to search your vehicle in the absence of PC. But he didn't need a warrant in your case, since you gave him permission to search your car. Your permission overrides the legal necessity for a warrant.

    Question: can you give consent to search a third-party's vehicle? It was his mothers and not his.
    Yes and no. If his mother was in the vehicle, it would be his mother's decision. If you were the driver and his mother was not around, it is the driver's prerogative.


    Question: if the search isn't valid, are the drugs fruit of the poisonous tree?
    I don't understand the question. But yes, the search was valid - the driver gave the police permission, and permission is all that is needed.

    MORAL OF THE STORY:

    It doesn't matter if you have a thousand kilos of coke in the car, a dead body in the trunk, the stolen Mona Lisa, or a stash of AK47s and and an RPG ...

    IF YOU KEEP IT OUT OF PLAIN SIGHT, DENY EVERYTHING, AND REFUSE TO A SEARCH WITHOUT A WARRANT ... YOU'LL GET AWAY. And if they search your car anyways and find all of the above, it's a waste of the officer's time because it will be suppressed and thrown out of court as the contraband was illegally discovered and secured.

    NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH WITHOUT A WARRANT. Unless of course, you're stupid enough to leave said contraband in plain sight which becomes a matter of exigency and thus the sufficiency of probable cause.

    Hope you or your friend have learned a lesson.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    15,355

    Default Re: Vehicle Search Pursuant to Traffic Stop

    Quote Quoting David K
    View Post
    And if they search your car anyways and find all of the above, it's a waste of the officer's time because it will be suppressed and thrown out of court as the contraband was illegally discovered and secured.
    Unless, of course, the vehicle was subject to impound and searched prior to the impound, or (depending on state law) subject to search based on probable cause or some other lawful exception. Just because consent is not granted does not mean that a search WILL result in suppression of evidence.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"


    End of Watch: Deputy Danny Oliver

    End of Watch: Detective Michael Davis, Jr.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: Vehicle Search Pursuant to Traffic Stop

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Unless, of course, the vehicle was subject to impound and searched prior to the impound, or (depending on state law) subject to search based on probable cause or some other lawful exception. Just because consent is not granted does not mean that a search WILL result in suppression of evidence.
    Good point.

    Under seizure by impound, I would find it reasonable to search the vehicle for security and safety purposes as the car will be kept in a government facility.

    That's true. Probable cause is quite arbitrary and has a wide spectrum of circumstances that effectuate it's prerogatives. Just because contraband isn't in plain sight, does not mean it does not have a scent, or sound. Thus, don't smoke pot in your car.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    15,355

    Default Re: Vehicle Search Pursuant to Traffic Stop

    Quote Quoting David K
    View Post
    Good point.

    Under seizure by impound, I would find it reasonable to search the vehicle for security and safety purposes as the car will be kept in a government facility.

    That's true. Probable cause is quite arbitrary and has a wide spectrum of circumstances that effectuate it's prerogatives. Just because contraband isn't in plain sight, does not mean it does not have a scent, or sound. Thus, don't smoke pot in your car.
    And, in my state (and I suspect many others) if the driver is unable or unwilling to produce required documents (license, registration, insurance) then the police can make a limited search to those areas where these documents might be found. So, there could be a number of reasons why a search might be conducted. Though, it would be incumbent upon the state to properly articulate those circumstances.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"


    End of Watch: Deputy Danny Oliver

    End of Watch: Detective Michael Davis, Jr.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Similar Threads

  1. Search and Seizure: Legality of a Vehicle Search After a Traffic Stop
    By Dinolfos in forum Criminal Procedure
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-08-2011, 05:22 PM
  2. Search and Seizure: Vehicle Search for Firearm During a Traffic Stop
    By bigmclaren in forum Criminal Procedure
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-15-2009, 08:03 PM
  3. Search and Seizure: Vehicle Search And Stop
    By shaggstheclown in forum Criminal Procedure
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-06-2008, 08:35 PM
  4. Search and Seizure: Possible Unlawful Stop and Search of a Vehicle
    By GoodKnightSleep in forum Criminal Procedure
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-23-2007, 02:06 AM
  5. Right To Search After A Traffic Stop
    By k1ngsky in forum Police Investigations
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 03-20-2007, 03:53 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
 
Forum Sponsor
Criminal Defense Attorney
Protect your freedom. Consult a criminal defense lawyer for free.




Untitled Document