Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20
  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    638

    Default Re: Forcing the Other Side to Present Their Evidence Prior to Trial

    Oh, Federal court. OK, it's the same but different. The plaintiff schedules a discovery conference where the two parties develop a discovery plan and present it to the court. During that conference it is agreed what will be discovered. There is a time constraint.

    It's still discovery, just organized by conference rather than the civil version where you usually just request all appertaining docs, names of witnesses, subpoena for depositions etc. outside of a conference and a formal plan.

    You still have to go through the motions. You may have something if they've waited too long, but then the judge will probably just give them more time.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: Forcing the Other Side to Present Their Evidence Prior to Trial

    Yup; we already had our conference and submitted initial disclosures, but they failed to provide documents pursuant to Fed.R.Civ.P. 26(a)(1)(A)(ii) and my documents are all already in record.

    The schedule has been finalized, but AFAIK that doesn't affect their requirement of sharing their documents with me. They filed counterclaims and my understanding is in order for their counsel to file counterclaims in good faith they must have some sort of documentation/evidence to support those claims. As the claims are 'paper based' my understanding is they were required to provide that documentation to me but failed to do so.

    At this point, I'm thinking sending a notice letter demanding they provide all documentation supporting their claims pursuant to Fed.R.Civ.P. 26(a)(1)(A)(ii) or I will move the court to compel them to do so is the best approach.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    638

    Default Re: Forcing the Other Side to Present Their Evidence Prior to Trial

    Quote Quoting Arazu Toth
    View Post
    I will move the court to compel them to do so is the best approach.
    A motion to compel. Remember to cite the rules in your motion, spell out what they haven't done, what you want, and to properly serve it on the parties.

    You're still conducting discovery.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: Forcing the Other Side to Present Their Evidence Prior to Trial

    Correct; but I must first make a good faith effort to obtain the information without leave of the court, and that's what I'll do. I just want to make sure I'm citing the proper law.

    Looking back on this I'm a bit surprised; they were technically compelled to provide this documentation with their initial disclosures, but omitted it.

    Basically the defendant's only defense is to play the system, so I've got to deal with every delay tactic and rotten act in the book; sadly the Judge doesn't seem interested in upholding the rules as I've already shown the court they've filed false pleadings, etc. and the judge just looks the other way (literally, he won't even comment on the content of the motions; he just denies them without explanation).

    *sigh*

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    638

    Default Re: Forcing the Other Side to Present Their Evidence Prior to Trial

    Quote Quoting Arazu Toth
    View Post
    Correct; but I must first make a good faith effort to obtain the information without leave of the court, and that's what I'll do. I just want to make sure I'm citing the proper law.

    Looking back on this I'm a bit surprised; they were technically compelled to provide this documentation with their initial disclosures, but omitted it.

    Basically the defendant's only defense is to play the system, so I've got to deal with every delay tactic and rotten act in the book; sadly the Judge doesn't seem interested in upholding the rules as I've already shown the court they've filed false pleadings, etc. and the judge just looks the other way (literally, he won't even comment on the content of the motions; he just denies them without explanation).

    *sigh*
    Now is not the time to tell the judge that they've filed false pleadings. That's a question for the Finder of Fact - the jury. No wonder he just looks away.

    The judge has the job of ruling on what the law is, and of conducting a trial in an orderly and lawful fashion. That's it. The judge can order parties to follow the law, but not rule on the value of "evidence" unless under the law it isn't admissible.

    The jury listens to the arguments and weighs the "evidence" and declares what the truth is. The jury's finding is the "verdict." You prove to the jury that their evidence if false.

    You need a lawyer.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: Forcing the Other Side to Present Their Evidence Prior to Trial

    The rules prohibit the filing of false pleadings. It is the Judge's job to uphold the rules during litigation and trial. We are currently in discovery and they have been given the green light to pursue discovery for claims which do not even meet the pleading standards and to which they have provided no substantive evidence of any kind (nor factual content).

    In addition, their claims are simply invented and carry no evidence. It seems to me a complete waste of the legal resources to allow such claims to make it to Trial if it can be proven prior to trial the claims and allegations are, in fact, false.

    I still haven't been given a straight answer as to how I am supposed to be "made aware of" the evidence the opposing side has in their possession to support their claims. My understanding was the very nature of the legal system required the parties to share any and all evidence they plan on using at trial to support their claims. Unfortunately, the specific set of rules which encapsulate this "fact" seem to elude me.

    I'm essentially up against a group of very wealthy people who are throwing money at counsel to file false pleadings to drag the issue out and cost me time and money. This isn't an emotional response, but a factual one. I would like to put a stop to this sort of thing to ensure fact prevails if this does go to trial; I'm just not seeing any indication of such.

    Unfortunately I do not have the funds to secure counsel. As a matter of fact no middle-classed American could afford what these guys have done so far (if I had counsel my bill would probably be well over $150,000).

    Telling somebody they "need a lawyer" instead of citing rules and process doesn't do anyone any good; especially in these forums where most of the people who post probably cannot afford one or have chosen (or have no choice) to pursue justice on their own.

    What it comes down to is I'm try to stop false pleadings from entering the record and to nail their false claims which they have provided absolutely no evidence to support. As mentioned above, it makes no sense they can make it to a jury trial on nothing but a few words written on a piece of paper with no evidence to back anything they say...

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    3,401

    Default Re: Forcing the Other Side to Present Their Evidence Prior to Trial

    Quote Quoting Arazu Toth
    View Post
    Telling somebody they "need a lawyer" instead of citing rules and process doesn't do anyone any good; especially in these forums where most of the people who post probably cannot afford one or have chosen (or have no choice) to pursue justice on their own.
    Normally when someone who is more well versed in the law than you tells you to get a lawyer, it means you are in over your head based on what you have told them.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    638

    Default Re: Forcing the Other Side to Present Their Evidence Prior to Trial

    I understand your frustration. I know of no way to argue that claims are false except to a jury.

    Maybe someone else on here does. So far no one else has posted which is unusual.

    It simply isn't a judge's job (or within his power) to rule on the value of claims or evidence, unless it doesn't meet the admissibility standards which are things such as hearsay evidence. A judge can rule that an entire suit is frivolous and toss it, or if you can prove that someone has committed perjury to the judge in advance of trial you can ask for sanctions...

    There are cases where Federal courts after a trial have ruled the whole thing frivolous and sanctioned the plaintiff by awarding attorney's fees and even more to the defendants, but you are pro se and can't get attorney's fees. Read this and maybe Google a bit. Remember, this is after a trial I believe, when the whole thing is laid out. LINK

    I suppose if you can prove that things said or offered to the court up until now are perjury, you should file a motion for sanctions. The judge does have the power to hold people in contempt or to sanction for certain misbehaviors including perjury to the court.

    I'd still be looking down the barrel at a motion for summary judgment. Be sure to find a few samples. They are a bit complicated but you can do it if you can prove - get this - that "no facts are in dispute and therefore there are no jury questions." Remember, a jury's job is to weigh facts which are in dispute and decide what the truth is. You have to prove no facts are in dispute. By "facts," I mean the legal term, not whether something is valid. "Facts" are the evidence including documents, witnesses, expert witnesses, police reports with testimony - things like that even if they are manufactured from whole cloth. They may all be bull, but they are still the "claimed" facts of the parties for the jury to weigh.

    Quote Quoting cmre3456
    View Post
    Now is not the time to tell the judge that they've filed false pleadings. That's a question for the Finder of Fact - the jury. No wonder he just looks away.
    May I revisit this? A judge can not give you legal advice, period. He can't help you form your case. If you ask the judge the wrong question which requires him to tell you what you're supposed to do, he can't answer you. Well, he could but you wouldn't like it.

    He's not your lawyer and he wouldn't be staying unbiased if he started helping you. Don't look for any help from the judge unless you have filed a valid and timely motion and he agrees with you.

    He thinks you need a lawyer, and many judges get very annoyed with pro se litigants because of the extra time they consume.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: Forcing the Other Side to Present Their Evidence Prior to Trial

    I agree; I will be moving for SJ, I just want to address their false and frivolous claims which have no evidence to support them prior so I can essentially get their case thrown out. The core issue is the Judge is part of the problem. I have consulted with attorneys about the issues with my case and they agree there is a definite lack of proper handling of things; and all of the handling relates to my attempts to strike and remove proven false pleadings during the litigation process. Some have even said "yah, I've never seen a judge do that..." But I haven't had any attorney state my motions or pleadings were not solid. Granted I speak very casually here and ask questions which may be in a grey area, I'm pretty familiar with the core rules for striking/sanctions, etc. Simply put the Judge won't hear any of it. He just wants to toss the case to a Jury and not have to put any effort into the process leading up to trial.

    Regardless, the intent of this thread was to find the techniques to force the other side to give up information. I sent out a demand letter pursuant to Fed.R.Civ.P. 26(a)(1)(A)(ii) and they refused to provide any "documentation", saying they were not required. So, they filed a plathora of counterclaims which would require documented support, and failed to disclose those documents in their disclosures and now refuse to provide anything. They're just playing the game because their entire case is about playing the system; nothing more.

    I understand I can file a motion to compel with the Court, but I want to be spot on about the representation of such.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    638

    Default Re: Forcing the Other Side to Present Their Evidence Prior to Trial

    Quote Quoting Arazu Toth
    View Post
    I agree; I will be moving for SJ, I just want to address their false and frivolous claims which have no evidence to support them prior so I can essentially get their case thrown out. The core issue is the Judge is part of the problem. I have consulted with attorneys about the issues with my case and they agree there is a definite lack of proper handling of things; and all of the handling relates to my attempts to strike and remove proven false pleadings during the litigation process. Some have even said "yah, I've never seen a judge do that..." But I haven't had any attorney state my motions or pleadings were not solid. Granted I speak very casually here and ask questions which may be in a grey area, I'm pretty familiar with the core rules for striking/sanctions, etc. Simply put the Judge won't hear any of it. He just wants to toss the case to a Jury and not have to put any effort into the process leading up to trial.
    Toss the case to a jury and give himself the headaches of a trial when he could just give you a proper ruling? I really think you're missing something here. Is it possible that those attorneys didn't give you good and complete advice because they want the case and your money?

    Something doesn't add up.

    I've never seen a judge choose the hard way (trial) when he could use his authority to properly dismiss or overrule something. BTW, I believe but can't prove that this is why a motion for summary judgment is ALWAYS a good idea. A judge may be tempted to get rid of a case. I KNOW I saw it once when there was quite the list of important and valid jury questions, and it needed to go to trial.

    Regardless, the intent of this thread was to find the techniques to force the other side to give up information. I sent out a demand letter pursuant to Fed.R.Civ.P. 26(a)(1)(A)(ii) and they refused to provide any "documentation", saying they were not required. So, they filed a plathora of counterclaims which would require documented support, and failed to disclose those documents in their disclosures and now refuse to provide anything. They're just playing the game because their entire case is about playing the system; nothing more.

    I understand I can file a motion to compel with the Court, but I want to be spot on about the representation of such.
    We can't do legal work for you. That's illegal in so many ways. I repeat that I would file a motion to compel. I would either find some good examples from your state's Federal courts, or lacking that from a Federal court on Google, or I would find an attorney who sells unbundled services to draft it for me. That's legal.

    You NEED an attorney. Lacking that, can you settle with these people? As in a letter or email asking "Is there any way we can settle this amicably?"

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Copyright Law: Works Published Prior to 1978 with No Evidence of Renewal
    By BradKincaid in forum Intellectual Property
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-15-2012, 01:06 PM
  2. Motions: Proving Answers to Be Wrong with Admitted Evidence Prior to Trial
    By Arazu Toth in forum Civil Procedure
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-02-2011, 09:10 AM
  3. Establishment: Can I See Any Proof or Evidence of What Was is Being Claimed Prior to Court
    By scubamike in forum Restraining Orders
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-20-2011, 04:37 PM
  4. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-25-2011, 07:45 AM
  5. Trials: Trial Notice says Both Attorney and Defendant Must be Present in Court
    By mazdaspeed007 in forum Criminal Procedure
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-28-2005, 10:54 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
 
Forum Sponsor
Find A Lawyer - Free, confidential referrals.
Legal Forms - Buy easy-to-use legal forms.




Untitled Document