Can the Landlord Require a New Lease if the Original Tenant Moves Out

[myjo24de]

My question involves landlord-tenant law in the State of: NJ

Hi, I've posted before but have more questions.

Scenario:
- My ex wants to move out and is demanding her security deposit.
- My landlord told me that they have to give her the security deposit when she moves out because she was the original leasee and paid the deposit. (This lease was originally signed with the prior landlord. The new landlord has continued to include both names on subsequent leases over the past ten years and never asked me for any additional sec. dep.).
- Landlord states that they will generate a new lease for me at a higher rate than we're now paying but below "fair market" value.
- A lease renewal is due in May.

Questions:
- Does the landlord have to return her security deposit if one tenant still remains in the apartment? Or, could "novation law" apply?
- Does removing one name from the lease entitle the landlord to generate a newly negotiated lease at a higher rate than would normally be allowed by town ordiannces had both names remained on the lease?
- Do I need to involve a lawyer?
- What can I say to my landlord?

I have tried to reach my local board of rent leveling, to no avail.

I would be so grateful for any help regarding my rights in this matter. Thanks.

[SChinFChin]

If you live in a town in NJ under rent control, then you'll have to identify the town. Rent control laws vary from place to place, and we have two separate ones covering NYC as an example. Normally, rents are raised to market when tenancies changes, unless under anomalous situations such as yours, where you divorced, then say "wait a minute, lets NOT change to lease to another name", so you you can reap the benefits of below market rent through such a scam.

And normally, when I change leases from two people to one, I have to re-qualify the tenants as well, as I have found in roommate situations, the person leaving is usually employed, and the the one staying is not. My mother in law in fact had a situation where the girlfriend who is employed moved, leaving behind the unemployed boyfriend who refused to look for work, and he used the argument with the LL that he is an existing tenant and should be allowed to stay, and even renew the lease.

If I was your ex, I know deposits are often used to cover damages to a rental, so how would I know even if the LL agrees to hold her deposit, and even if your ex agrees to it, that you wouldn't trash the place when you move out, so when the LL says, "I'm going to take it out of the security", i.e. it's taken out of HERS. How would she know you'll take good care of the place if it's someones else's deposit on the line.

If I was the LL, and if I'm dumb enough to agree with you, I can expect a big fight years from now when you move, if I have to withhold the deposit for whatever reason, this even assuming I would have no trouble collecting the rent. I'm a LL, and I wouldn't do it.

[myjo24de]

The town is Morristown, NJ. where we have VACANCY DECONTROL.
My name is on the lease and has been for ten years.
I am not VACATING the premises.
I am a tenant in common. NOT a sublesee. If my ex doesn't pay her share of the rent, I am liable, as she would be if I didn't pay mine.
I will pay my ex her security deposit.
My income exceeds my ex's x 3, and my credit rating is excellent.
My landlord told me she doesn't want to have to pay her lawyer to find out what the town laws are as this can become expensive for her. That's what she told me....and I dont blame her. She also told me that we have been "model tenants."
I would be happy to have her run a credit check on me.
I don't know if you're dumb or not, but I can't see how you would anticipate a "big fight years from now when you move, if I have to withhold the deposit for whatever reason, this even assuming I would have no trouble collecting the rent."
If I did trash the place, which is highly unlikely since I have made several major improvemnts to the apartment (such as adding plumbing for a washer/dryer), the landlord would be entitled to keep the security deposit. This is my home...not a flop house.
While I can appreciate the fact that the landlord is looking out for their best interests and wants to decontrol this apartment to yield more income, I must also protect my rights. This is no scam on my part. I wish to remain as I have.
Why would my rights, as an equal tenant change and necessitate the generation of a new lease?
If I wanted to perpetuate a scam, I could just leave her name on the lease and come to a seperate binding ageement with her to relinquish all claims on the apartment.

What if one partner died? Would that generate a new lease even though both names have appeared on the lease for ten years?

I am looking for information as to what my rights as a tenant might be. Thanks.

[jk]

If I did trash the place, which is highly unlikely since I have made several major improvemnts to the apartment (such as adding plumbing for a washer/dryer),

did you have permission to make those "improvements"? If not, the landlord can seek the cost of returning the apartment to its prior condition as damages. What a tenant often sees as an improvement is not seen the same by the landlord.

In fact, since you mention plumbing: are you a licensed plumber? Did you have a licensed plumber do the work? Did you obtain a permit?

If you did not comply with the law, you might have caused a lot of problems for the landlord.

If I wanted to perpetuate a scam, I could just leave her name on the lease and come to a seperate binding ageement with her to relinquish all claims on the apartment.

Your "binding" agreement would not be binding on the landlord. He could still go after her for damages.

I cannot find much on the rules of rent leveling in your area. I did find this a bit humorous:

http://www.townofmorristown.org/index.asp?Type=B_LIST&SEC={ECF091A8-F00A-46AB-AD01-D0F8EB231A50}

I guess there are no FAQ's on the topic.


if nobody else comes up with anything, a call to the Rent Leveling Office would likely provide the answers you seek.

[SChinFChin]

You mention it's a "ex" so for all intensive purposes, it's like a roommate situation. Through 30 years of landlording, I've had tenants pay security deposits, whenever the payer leaves, in all cases wants his money back if he or she was the one orginally paying, and wants me to collect the deposit from the remaining tenant. No one ever said to me, "I hope I can find you to get my money 10 years from now when my roommate leaves". In fact, in one case, the remaining roommate wants the departing roommate to leave his deposit with me, and the roommate said "I don't know where I'll be 10 years from now, so when you finally decide to leave this place, I'm suppose to come back here to look for the LL then"??

If I was in his shoes, I'd say the same thing. If you say I AM SO DUMB saying there might be a big fight 10 years from now, then many of the departing tenants of mine are also just as dumb because none of them want to leave deposits behind on a place they no longer live in, because they don't know what the new roommates would be like, or if they'll trash the place. In fact, I totally agree that leaving a deposit behind is ABSOLUTELY DUMB.

This is also besides the point that the departing roommate needs the money.

I've been told by lawyers that if party ABC issued me the check for the deposit, she leaves, she no lives there, then I has to issue a check back to ABC, and get another check from XYZ who now lives there. I don't beleive "rent control" forces a departing tenants to leave behind deposits for the remaining roommate. It is entirely unfair to the departing roommate, as it's like forcing her to give you a loan for the rest of your life if you decide to stay there forever. Does that even sound right?? Your big argument is you are also on the lease, so "ha ha, she's stuck paying my deposit forever".

And I know rent control laws are very peculair, so I can't tell you what your rights are vis a vis your LL under Morristown's regulations, neither can your LL apparently, so either your LL has to hire an attorney, or you'll have to.

Finally, I know many LL gets screwed by rent control, but also screwing roommates is a new one.

[myjo24de]

Yes, of course I had the LL's approval. And yes, I hired a licensed plumber. A permit was obtained and the town reviewed and approved the work.
When the LL wants to show the complex to perspective new tenants, she brings them to my apartment.
Why would the LL go after my ex if there was any damage to the apartment? Couldn't LL transfer the deposit to my name through novation law? For that matter, couldn't the entire contract be transfered? Since I'm the remaining tenant, wouldn't I become liable?
Does everyone who goes through a divorce or has a partner die lose their lease rights?
Getting information or even reaching the rent leveling bd. is like pulling teeth from a chicken!
Thanks for your input.

SChinFChin...I didn't come here to argue, but you're the one who introduced presumptive, offensive assumptions by implying dumbness and scamming intent.
If my landlord is required, by law to return ex's SD, what if I gave my ex the SD? Isn't the whole point of SD to protect LL from damages? What difference does it make who it came from?
If I understand your point, you are suggesting that the person who makes the deposit is the sole tenant with any rights. If that is the case, why have the second party sign the lease? It is my understanding that if my name is on the lease, not only can the LL hold me liable for the entire rent (should my ex choose not to pay), but cannot evict me on a whim.
There has to be some legal rights and protections for both parties who sign a lease contract.

[SChinFChin]

SChinFChin...I didn't come here to argue, but you're the one who introduced presumptive, offensive assumptions by implying dumbness and scamming intent.
If my landlord is required, by law to return ex's SD, what if I gave my ex the SD? Isn't the whole point of SD to protect LL from damages? What difference does it make who it came from?
If I understand your point, you are suggesting that the person who makes the deposit is the sole tenant with any rights. If that is the case, why have the second party sign the lease? It is my understanding that if my name is on the lease, not only can the LL hold me liable for the entire rent (should my ex choose not to pay), but cannot evict me on a whim.
There has to be some legal rights and protections for both parties who sign a lease contract.

Who the deposit money came from is the whole key to this issue!!

Both my dad and I had been landlords, he for 50 years, me for 30. The rule on security deposits had always been, you collect a deposit, you hold THAT person responsible, and when the tenant vacates, you return the deposit to THAT person, NOT the other roommate.

So comes tenant ABC, and XYZ renting my place. Often, I sign a lease, and many times, the deposit comes from ABC only. If both tenants vacate, I write the check to ABC only, NOT ABC and XYZ. The security goes back to the person who issued the check in the first place, regardless of how many other names are on the lease. There could be 10 other names on the lease NOT entitled to the security.

What if only one vacates, and it's ABC, and XYZ stays with me. If it's OK with ABC that keep the deposit money that's in ABC's name, that's fine. However, in all my years, if ABC vacates, ABC ALWAYS asks for the money back. Sometimes XYZ tells me that XYZ would pay and reimburse ABC, please change the name on the security deposit person. I would say, NO, have XYZ issue the check to me, I will isssue the check to ABC to refund the security.

Now, having done it for 30 years, I have people calling me dumb, and wise guy for making them do all of this, especially the one staying and the one staying DOES NOT want to pay the deposit. I tell this person I have several problems.

First of all, ABC is not there, and could be moving to the other side of the country, back to his own country in some cases. The security is to make sure the tenant takes care of the place, and I DON'T trust someone taking care of MY PLACE on SOMEONE else's security.

Second, if and when the second tenant moves, could be years from now, I have to return the deposit to the first party, ABC, if I don't receive the security from the second person, the way you want it handled. What happens?? If this second person leaves, and there are damages, and the first person moved back to Ireland as happened, then I have to send a letter to Ireland explaining I have to deduct this, and this could be ten years later, that or the other thing from the deposit money, providing I have the address of the original person, wherever he is.

Why do I have to do all of this?? Do I have to hire private eyes to track people down all over the world?? I run the place, and that's how I want the security handled, LEGALLY, AND WHO IT CAME FROM IS THE WHOLE KEY!!!

If you think I have no idea what I am talking about, I have discussions like this in person with tenants, and when I tell the remaining tenant he has to come up with the deposit to stay, I would get rolling of the eyes, questions like why I am making things difficult, to that I am dumb and stupid, and why I am getting into an argument.

Sound familiar??

In fact, I got so tired of roommate situations because of this that I no longer rent to them, and when I do, I have a provision in my lease that when one tenant leaves, both must vacate, and the lease is terminated, and the remaining roommate would have to start with me as a new tenant, on an entrely new lease, so I don't get the argument that you are making "I was on that lease already, so why do I have to pay this"??

I already know all about that argument, and adjusted my leases acordingly.

Yeh, been there, done that, and been called stupid too, and I don't care. Yes, the roommate who's moving has some contractual rights too, paid GOOD MONEY, and now wants it back, and for a GOOD reason, she's not living there anymore. But have we forgotten about his or her contractual rights??

[myjo24de]

What if only one vacates, and it's ABC, and XYZ stays with me. If it's OK with ABC that keep the deposit money that's in ABC's name, that's fine. However, in all my years, if ABC vacates, ABC ALWAYS asks for the money back. Sometimes XYZ tells me that XYZ would pay and reimburse ABC, please change the name on the security deposit person. I would say, NO, have XYZ issue the check to me, I will isssue the check to ABC to refund the security.


I do understand your point about having to track people down (seems everybody's moving back to Ireland) and that's not your job.

So, if ABC is leaving and wants her security back and XYZ is willing to replace that security and cuts the landlord a check:

1) would you accept the same amount of money that was 1 1/2 months rent 10 yrs ago or would you want XYZ to pay you 1 1/2 months rent at today's lease rate?
2) would you keep XYZ on the lease at the same terms as before (as if ABC never left)? Or, would you generate an entirely new lease, kick XYZ off rent control and charge fair market value as if the apartment were vacant and XYZ never existed?
3) what rights does XYZ have, if any? Thanks.

So we understand each other...I am willing to replace the security deposit. Either to my ex or to the landlord.

My original question was about my rights. Does the landlord have the right to ignore the fact that I have been on the lease for ten years and generate a new lease under new terms (effectively kicking me off rent control), and at a new higher lease rate outside the expected yearly rent controlled percentage?

[SChinFChin]

What if only one vacates, and it's ABC, and XYZ stays with me. If it's OK with ABC that keep the deposit money that's in ABC's name, that's fine. However, in all my years, if ABC vacates, ABC ALWAYS asks for the money back. Sometimes XYZ tells me that XYZ would pay and reimburse ABC, please change the name on the security deposit person. I would say, NO, have XYZ issue the check to me, I will isssue the check to ABC to refund the security.


I do understand your point about having to track people down (seems everybody's moving back to Ireland) and that's not your job.

So, if ABC is leaving and wants her security back and XYZ is willing to replace that security and cuts the landlord a check:

1) would you accept the same amount of money that was 1 1/2 months rent 10 yrs ago or would you want XYZ to pay you 1 1/2 months rent at today's lease rate?
2) would you keep XYZ on the lease at the same terms as before (as if ABC never left)? Or, would you generate an entirely new lease, kick XYZ off rent control and charge fair market value as if the apartment were vacant and XYZ never existed?
3) what rights does XYZ have, if any? Thanks.

In cases where ABC leaves, XYZ stays, I cut ABC a check, and accept a replacement check from XYZ. Normally, the replacement check is in the same amount provided that security deposit amounts are adjusted annually which they often aren't. If the tenants now vacate, the security is refunded to XYZ.

In the past, XYZ would get a new roommate to replace ABC, and I would write an amendment to the lease. However, I had problems, and I often neglect to qualify the new tenants resulting in unemployed people living in my units. I have told tenants I have the option of terminating the original lease, and put them on an entirely new one, based on a provision in the lease allowing me to do this.

As to your situation, as I said before, rent control regulations vary locality to locality. There are "succession rights" under rent control in NYC, so husbands, children etc. have rights to take over the rental and be placed under the lease, with the same provisions, but perhaps with slight adjustment of rent, as your LL have alluded to as "still below market". Some years back, the succession rights been amended and only one generation is allowed, and other relatives such as aunts uncles nephews does not. You probably have succession rights as a husband, as this is normal in controlled units. I know in NYC, friends of mine have resorted to subterfuge to maintain low rents, such as the parents retired to FL, the son moved in, but neglected to tell the LL. I hear LL's have started to hire PI's to check tenants out to make sure the person living in the unit is really the tenant on the lease.

As to security deposit amounts, it's normally adjusted annually, so it should be 1-1/2 times the current monthly rent already if the LL is on top of things. I handle finances at a Senior Center, and members had come to me about additional amounts that comes through on their rent bills, and often, when the rents go up, an additional amount should be added in for the additional security. As most of these people are on some rent assistance, the LL often overlooks this, and some members have unpaid pass due additional security charges going back years. I owned a commercial business, my rent went from $4,500 to $6,000/month over six years, but my LL forgot to bill me for additional security each year which he is entitled to. I called my lawyer about it, and he reminded me it's not my job, I'm not my LL's bookkeeper. At three months rent, he could've woke up one day, remembered, and legally ask me for another $4,500, but he didn't. LOL.