CHP Motorcycle Cop Off Bike Gave Speeding Tickets

[driving]

While driving down the Northern California I-5-S freeway on the 1st lane (far left), I noticed some cars on the 3rd and 4th lanes (far right) slowing down showing their brake lights. Since I had neither a car in front or behind me for some good 50 feet, I slowed down, but not to the same speed as they were since they had other cars in their lanes. While slowing down, I noticed that on the right shoulder a CHP motorcycle officer was walking away from a car window from a car that he had just given a ticket to and was returning to his bike; I meanwhile had safely changed lanes to the 2nd lane, between two cars, going the flow of traffic. While passing him, I looked in my rear view mirror to notice him saddle his bike, merge back into the fwy lane, swerve behind some cars and in front of the car behind me, and pull his lights on. While I slowed down, cars in the 1st and 4th lanes passed by. I crossed two lanes over to arrive in the 4th lane, and pulled over on the shoulder.

He asked if I knew I was going 85, to which I responded, "no i don't believe i was." He said that he knew I was going bc I was zooming by when he was giving the ticket on the shoulder and asked if I had seen him point at me, bc as he said, " i pointed at you to let you know I was coming after you." I said, "no i didn't see you point at me." He asked, "you didn't see me point at you?" I repeated my response again and added," no, I didnt; but yes, I saw you on the shoulder giving another car a ticket." He said, "well you were going around 85." I asked, "how could you tell that?" He said, "Im trained to estimate speed and I could tell you were zooming by." I said, "well I know I wasn't going that speed." He asked, "do you know how fast you were going?" I said, "no, but I am sure I wasn't going 85. how can you know what my speed was?" He said, "well we are given training to estimate speed and we have radars."

I asked him if there was anything I could do to not receive a ticket, to which he responded, "i have to do my job! and even if you weren't going that speed, you have to follow the safety laws." (So that didn't boil over too well.) In any case, he issued me a ticket and said, "well I'm going to give you a break and say it was a 75 in a 65mph zone." He wrote my LA address on the ticket (the same from my license), but I now live in Sacramento and explained that briefly.


My facts:He was off his bike and was only behind me for less than 20 seconds, while I was already slowing down because he was immediately behind me.

I never asked if he had a radar gun, but I am under the impression that a motorcycle officers have external, hand-held radar guns, not those on their motorcycles. His bike did not look like the most updated bike either. He only alluded to having a radar, but never said that he had one and had used it on me. He only mentioned that he made an estimate.

While apparently an intended kind gesture from the officer, after consideration I can't imagine that the officer could estimate my speed in the 1st lane, while off his bike in the fwy. shoulder. I can't also imagine that he could get a radar assessment deeming me over the speed limit and out of the flow of traffic if I was already slowing down to drive with the flow of traffic between two cars--especially since he even had to speed up to catch up to me to merge between me and another car.

So, I have a few questions:
Is there a law stating that an officer must currently be on their bike or in their car at the point of apparent violation?

Also, can I request a court date in LA instead of Sacramento, given that my address is indicated as an LA address?

Given my summary, does it seem probable that the officer could correctly assess my speed while off his motorcycle and in stand-still 4 lanes away?

Do I have a case if I plead non-guilty, claiming that he couldn't have possibly correctly estimated my speed while off his bike, and especially given that I was going with the flow of traffic? And if so, do you have any tips on how to prove it?

Since I never was clocked on the radar (to my knowledge), can I use his miscorrect estimation and lack of a radar submission to my benefit if I challenge this ticket?

Do you find any other loopholes in my story that I can use to my advantage in bargaining my case?

Would requesting a different court house or hearing in a different county OR requesting an extension on the hearing date DECREASE my chances of having the cop show up? Are these viable options?


Thank you so much!

[lwpat]

You cannot transfer to a different county. You can request a change to the county seat at the time of the stop if you live/work closer. Sometimes you can file a motion to change and the judge will grant but that is at his option.

The officer's visual estimation is enough for the ticket to be sustained.

Based on your explanation you were speeding and have no defense.

Probably your best option is to take the online traffic school.

[chuckycheese]

I certainly agree with the change of venue...it ain't gonna happen, at this point. Your story sounds so credible but there's no way he could pull you over 20 seconds later..so I think you should re-think that one; it's simply not likely, considering he had to get on his bike, fire it up and chase you. (That would be, however, a great question to ask him in court...if he said it was 20 seconds later, you'd be found not guilty so fast, it would make his head spin.)

It's too bad you can't plead not guilty and go to court (that sounds to be impractical). There would be a good chance the cop wouldn't show. It's your call....

By the way, if the cop did show up in court, you'd likely lose, as I imagine you already know. Good luck!

[driving]

Thanks so much for the responses and your opinions.

One quick question, if I do attend court to plead not guilty, is there a possibility that I can get an even worse fine/punishment than that already given through my ticket? Do judges give harsher punishments when someone appeals in comparison to the original ticket given?

[cdwjava]

Pleading not guilty at the first hearing is no biggie. However, taking the stand at trial usually results in traffic school being taken off the table as an option should you lose.

The CHP has a higher attendance rate at court than local law enforcement, so your odds are not too good that he will not attend. However, it is common for all parties to go to court and when the clerk calls the role (and you know if your officer is present or not) the judge will usually allow the attending defendants to plead guilty and accept traffic school if eligible. The court knows people do this. However, if you take the stand, chances are the court will no longer offer traffic school - and many courts tell you this right up front.

- Carl

[driving]

Thanks, Carl. I really appreciate your help.

Can a guilty plea to a lesser charge with the prosecution provide traffic school as an option, even if traffic school has been attended within the past year? (I'm aware of the 18 mo. limit.)In other words, if the prosecution wants to, can they offer traffic school as an option instead of placing the violation on one's record, despite one's attendance in traffic school in the past 12 months?

If I do set a hearing date, show up, and am told at the hearing that if I take the stand I will lose traffic school eligibility, can i opt to not take the stand then and there? Do I lose my traffic school eligibility as soon as I request a court date, even before I attend court?

Also, I've heard (but don't yet believe) that if you call the police station and ask for the officer's schedule, you can sometimes schedule a court date on the officer's day of work or day off to avoid having them show in court. Is this even remotely possible--to receive their schedule by calling in? Is that a matter of public record?


Thank you so much!

[cdwjava]

Can a guilty plea to a lesser charge with the prosecution provide traffic school as an option, even if traffic school has been attended within the past year? (I'm aware of the 18 mo. limit.)In other words, if the prosecution wants to, can they offer traffic school as an option instead of placing the violation on one's record, despite one's attendance in traffic school in the past 12 months?

The COURT can offer traffic school if you are otherwise ineligible, but the DA cannot. Usually the DA is not involved in plea negotiations for traffic matters, but in some counties they are (usually this happens in smaller counties).

If I do set a hearing date, show up, and am told at the hearing that if I take the stand I will lose traffic school eligibility, can i opt to not take the stand then and there? Do I lose my traffic school eligibility as soon as I request a court date, even before I attend court?

No. They usually make the announcement at the trial date. That would be when you would usually be given the chance to change your plea from "not guilty" to "guilty" with the offer of traffic school. However, if you have a prior traffic school within the last 18 months, the judge may not offer it to you.

Also, I've heard (but don't yet believe) that if you call the police station and ask for the officer's schedule, you can sometimes schedule a court date on the officer's day of work or day off to avoid having them show in court. Is this even remotely possible--to receive their schedule by calling in? Is that a matter of public record?

Most agencies are not going to tell you this information. My schedule is not public record, and, in fact, this CAN be a safety issue. And even if they do, it tends to be 3 to 4 hours of overtime (at time and a half) for 30 minutes of work so you are not really punishing the officer. In fact, my wife likes it when I get overtime - I live 8 blocks from the courthouse, so for me it's a good chunk of change for almost no time sopent in court!

Plus, if you continue the date to do that, the officer can always continue the date for the same reason - he is unavailable.

- Carl

[chuckycheese]

I've never heard of a ticket dispute being heard at the convenience of the officer....does that really happen?? I do understand that they can offer a different date but, once that date is met, you're usually home free if the dude doesn't show up.

And, they often don't for a variety of reasons... (For minor stuff, most of them don't really care and can bring in more cash (in a fun way) by bieng on the 'street'.

[cdwjava]

I've never heard of a ticket dispute being heard at the convenience of the officer....does that really happen??

It is no less valid for an officer to call saying he is unavailable on a particular day than it is for the defendant.

However, since most agencies are not going to give out an officer's schedule, it's moot. And when you consider that it is likely that no more than 1/6 of the officers in Patrol will work on the DAY of court (much less the time), it is almost a given that the court time will be OT for the officer anyhow.

Additionally, in some counties they request a schedule for issuing officers so that the court will schedule a court hearing for the officer's best convenience.

- Carl

[driving]

If the date doesn't work for me, how do I request a continuance of the hearing date or schedule a different date to that given to me?


Thanks so much, lwpat, chuckycheese, and Carl.