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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Walking at Night and Stopped By the Police

    Quote Quoting Michael44
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    http://www.theagitator.com/2012/02/2...omplaint-form/

    Those are on video. People trying to file a complaint. Sometimes they are threatened with arrest. Sometimes they are detained. Nothing happens.

    Sorry, but ... get into real life.
    I am in "real life." In my state we MUST provide an avenue to make a complaint against personnel. I'm not sure what agencies those snippets are from, when they occurred, what agencies are involved, or what transpired before the snippet was cropped.

    An isolated incident, or a few isolated incidents hardly make something common practice. In most states agencies are required by law to accept complaints. Many agencies even have these forms on-line so they can be completed without even coming to the front counter.

    Obviously, I cannot speak for every state or every agency in the US, but by and large the ONLY way an agency knows about poor employees is because people tell them. If people do not speak up, then they get the police department they deserve.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"


    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns

  2. #22
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    Mar 2012
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    6

    Default Re: Walking at Night and Stopped By the Police

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
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    After reading the various posts here by OP, I’m strongly suspecting a troll. Word choice and phraseology, along with the obviously similar circumstances of the complaint, make me highly suspicious that OP is the same person who started the threa[d] that Missy referred to in her post.
    Then why did you bother to even reply then? Your intention is obviously to support your equally negatively biased friend, belittle me and ridicule everything that I have to say and goad me into a response. Congratulations, you have succeeded handsomely.

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
    View Post
    I’ll refrain from comment on his increasingly belligerent subsequent posts.
    Yet you have commented anyway. Your 100% pro-police bias is also strongly apparent in that the police did everything right and I did everything wrong including but not limited to my decision to attempt a peaceful evening stroll in my own neighborhood. Got it. The sticking point is that I was in a bad mood which happens to everybody from time to time including police officers. I was unaware that being in a bad mood or not dialoguing in an amiable enough manner was “probable cause”.

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
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    I really don’t want to sound overly judgmental…
    You do and you come across exactly this way.

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
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    Actually, the cop doesn’t need an “excuse” to talk to you. He didn’t detain you or arrest you. All he did is ask you politely, “hey, got a minute?” You agreed to stop and talk to him voluntarily.
    A car on my otherwise quite street rolls up behind me and slows down as I pass a driveway. I figure they want to get in their driveway so I keep walking to let them get in. The car doesn’t turn in the driveway and is now slowly pacing me from behind and my guard goes up. A voice calls out and I turn and discover a police car in the middle of the road and I ask “Is there a problem?” to which he replies that I appear to be “staggering.” This is a blatant lie which puts me on the defensive even further as I was not staggering and now I feel a defensive obligation that I have to explain myself which I find irritating. The police officer could just as easily have said “I’m stopping you because it’s late out and I want to ask you some questions”. The honesty would have been appreciated and defused the situation immediately as he would have gained my trust. Instead the deceitfulness got things off on the wrong foot.

    He “asked” in a manner that I felt did not present the option to refuse or say no to at any time during this encounter. Suddenly getting out of the vehicle was aggressive, intimidating and scary and as he does this he says something along the lines of “I am going to do this (the search), is that OK?” as he was doing it anyway. I did not have the option or choice to refuse or say “no, this is intimidating and most certainly NOT ok”. Instead I felt that I had no alternative but to say “yes” and submit, which is exactly what he wanted. That you consider being pressured and intimidated as “agreement” is unfortunate. If a mugger put a gun to your head and asked for your wallet then, yes, you agreed to hand over your wallet. He asked didn’t he and you voluntarily handed it over, right?

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
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    Did the cop tell you that his actions were motivated due to his displeasure that you were “annoyed and not acting subservient”
    By his actions, body language and the overall way he conducted himself.

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
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    It is, therefore, nothing more than simple prudence that the officer check out that bulge during your voluntary conversation.
    The conversation was anything but voluntary. He gave me the hard time because I speaking in a tone of voice and manner that this police officer did not particularly care for.

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
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    Even [though] you say that the officer “requests” to check your pockets. He did not demand or use any force to compel this. He asked and you voluntarily complied.
    Again he is “asking” while already checking my pockets and not waiting for an answer either way. This is not voluntary compliance.

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
    View Post
    He even declined your offer to conduct a full “pat-down.” He just asked to check the one bulging pocket and, when satisfied that there was no weapon, left it at that. That is a far cry from your claim that “at this point I’m being treated like a criminal.” If the officer had indeed treated you like a criminal, he would have handcuffed you, thoroughly searched your person, and hauled you to jail.
    I’ve never been touched, let alone searched, by the police. The experience was intimidating and shocking. I offered the full pat down as the way this situation was unfolding with this individual and nightmarish escalation that I strongly believed at that point in time that a pat down and possibly more, was going to be his next action regardless of whatever he may ask or regardless of whatever answer I may provide. The officer wanted compliance and submission and I felt at this point I better give him what he wants as he is making it increasingly clear that he can and will escalate the situation as far as he wants should he chose to do so. He was in complete control, he showed me who was boss and what he could do if so inclined and most importantly that there was absolutely nothing that I could do about it. He was enjoying his moment of power, authority and control.

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
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    As well you should glad. As cdwjava has already pointed out, such proactive police …You should feel fortunate that you reside in a community where that is not the case.
    This is a quiet suburban community where literally nothing happens. For the police it gets pretty boring as there is no “action”. This police officer’s conduct destroyed the confidence and impression that I once had with this police department. I hope this officer is not an example of what’s on the rest of the force.

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
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    As I and every other responder [have] said, I don’t see that he gave you a “hard time.” He REQUESTED to speak with you and you agreed. He REQUESTED to check your pocket and you agreed. He REQUESTED to question you about why and what you were up to…and you agreed to the questioning, voluntarily.
    He intimidated and I complied. Had he asked in the manner you seem to think transpired then I would have declined and walked away. That was not going to happen and this police officer made that quite clear.

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
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    He made no demands or even implied any force to gain your compliance. You were free to decline to talk to him, walk away, refuse to answer any question, or refuse to allow him to check your pockets.
    Au contraire. The exact opposite was strongly conveyed. I felt that I had no choice in the matter. Some people don’t like situations such as this and may be inclined to get irritated for want of a better word. I had absolutely no impression that I could ever decline, refuse to answer questions, let alone walk away. You have got to be kidding. With the officer out of his vehicle and physically in my face “Asking” to search my pockets and doing it anyway prior to receiving an answer was unexpected, scary and very intimidating. That was the desired result. Considering the way this circumstance unfolded I do not want to speculate or entertain what may have happened had I refused his so-called “request” to pat me down like a criminal guilty of nothing more than walking in my own neighborhood and using a less than friendly tone of voice.

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
    View Post
    As far as the officer communicating through his demeanor that he didn’t appreciate your rude and unreasonably defensive comments, that’s just human nature. I doubt that you would receive any different response from a store clerk, a school administrator…
    The police officer is not a store clerk or teacher and he should be able to keep HIS emotions in check during the performance of his job and not let his personal emotions cloud or affect his judgment or cause him to loose control. The officer should also be aware of the varied reactions to force and intimidation in the performance of his duties and that yes even innocent people may not react the way he feels that they should, expects, or wants them to, and that too is just human nature. A professional would have attempted to diffuse the situation rather than escalating it in a pissing contest to show me who was boss. If he had there would have been no reason to post in the first place and we both would have walked away from the encounter with warm and fuzzy feelings.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Walking at Night and Stopped By the Police

    Quote Quoting John Cooper
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    Then why did you bother to even reply then? Your intention is obviously to support your equally negatively biased friend, belittle me and ridicule everything that I have to say and goad me into a response. Congratulations, you have succeeded handsomely.
    I really don’t see anywhere in my post that was belittling or ridiculing you.

    Quote Quoting John Cooper
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    I was unaware that being in a bad mood or not dialoguing in an amiable enough manner was “probable cause”.
    It is not…nor did I ever imply that it was.

    Quote Quoting John Cooper
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    The police officer is not a store clerk or teacher and he should be able to keep HIS emotions in check during the performance of his job and not let his personal emotions cloud or affect his judgment or cause him to loose control.
    Yes, you are correct. And, nothing in your original post gave any indication that this cop did let his emotion affect his judgment or cause him to lose control.

    Quote Quoting John Cooper
    View Post
    A voice calls out and I turn and discover a police car in the middle of the road and I ask “Is there a problem?” to which he replies that I appear to be “staggering.” This is a blatant lie which puts me on the defensive even further as I was not staggering and now I feel a defensive obligation that I have to explain myself which I find irritating….

    He “asked” in a manner that I felt did not present the option to refuse or say no to at any time during this encounter. Suddenly getting out of the vehicle was aggressive, intimidating and scary and as he does this he says something along the lines of “I am going to do this (the search), is that OK?” as he was doing it anyway. I did not have the option or choice to refuse or say “no, this is intimidating and most certainly NOT ok”. Instead I felt that I had no alternative but to say “yes” and submit, which is exactly what he wanted. That you consider being pressured and intimidated as “agreement” is unfortunate. If a mugger put a gun to your head and asked for your wallet then, yes, you agreed to hand over your wallet. He asked didn’t he and you voluntarily handed it over, right?...

    Again he is “asking” while already checking my pockets and not waiting for an answer either way. This is not voluntary compliance…

    The experience was intimidating and shocking. I offered the full pat down as the way this situation was unfolding with this individual and nightmarish escalation that I strongly believed at that point in time that a pat down and possibly more, was going to be his next action regardless of whatever he may ask or regardless of whatever answer I may provide. The officer wanted compliance and submission and I felt at this point I better give him what he wants as he is making it increasingly clear that he can and will escalate the situation as far as he wants should he chose to do so. He was in complete control, he showed me who was boss and what he could do if so inclined and most importantly that there was absolutely nothing that I could do about it. He was enjoying his moment of power, authority and control…

    With the officer out of his vehicle and physically in my face “Asking” to search my pockets and doing it anyway prior to receiving an answer was unexpected, scary and very intimidating. That was the desired result. Considering the way this circumstance unfolded I do not want to speculate or entertain what may have happened had I refused his so-called “request” to pat me down like a criminal guilty of nothing more than walking in my own neighborhood and using a less than friendly tone of voice.
    Well, that is VERY different than the scenario you described in your original post. It is obvious that you will continue to change the story and twist events until you get the pat on the head that you obviously desire. So, ok. Here you go…

    The policeman is a VERY BAD man. Poor baby, you were completely justified in acting like an ass and, after all, it is the police’s JOB to be crapped on. So, the officer should have immediately apologized for daring to have any suspicions about such an obviously upright and pious citizen as you, thanked you for setting him straight with your rude demeanor, and offered you a donut for your trouble. He was a bad man and you are entirely justified in your righteous anger.










    Feel better?

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Walking at Night and Stopped By the Police

    Quote Quoting PTPD22
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    I really don’t see anywhere in my post that was belittling or ridiculing you.



    It is not…nor did I ever imply that it was.



    Yes, you are correct. And, nothing in your original post gave any indication that this cop did let his emotion affect his judgment or cause him to lose control.



    Well, that is VERY different than the scenario you described in your original post. It is obvious that you will continue to change the story and twist events until you get the pat on the head that you obviously desire. So, ok. Here you go…

    The policeman is a VERY BAD man. Poor baby, you were completely justified in acting like an ass and, after all, it is the police’s JOB to be crapped on. So, the officer should have immediately apologized for daring to have any suspicions about such an obviously upright and pious citizen as you, thanked you for setting him straight with your rude demeanor, and offered you a donut for your trouble. He was a bad man and you are entirely justified in your righteous anger.










    Feel better?

    Co-sign, please.

    Folks - we're being trolled.
    An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise - Victor Hugo

    Do not microwave grapes

  5. #25

    Default Re: Walking at Night and Stopped By the Police

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
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    Folks - we're being trolled.
    And thus I stand by my observation that the poster would be better served in a therapeutic setting - cause there are issues.
    Catherine NeSmith
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  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    27,203

    Default Re: Walking at Night and Stopped By the Police

    Quote Quoting Michael44
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    I agree - theoretically. In reality, if you refuse to talk to a police officer, you could be in for a bit of trouble. He could find SOMETHING if he wants to (maybe he saw you toss a gum wrapper on the ground 10 minutes ago, or there is a possible violation of Ordinance 903446-19) or determine that you are conducting yourself in a disorderly manner. That is reality. You don't know if you have an upright officer in front of you whose motivation is to protect the community ... or a bully whose motivation is to have some sadistic fun. Both exist (please note: I said "both exist", not "all cops are bullies").

    The best course of action is to simply answer basic questions, Yes, sir, no, sir, and don't get visibly upset. Getting upset is going to cause the bully version to engage with you much longer than otherwise. Don't bother with a complaint to the police chief - it's not going to result in anything. The worst course of action is to do what jk says above.

    Edited to add - here's a man who was arrested for saying swear words in front of a woman:

    http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/cuss...ersed-michigan

    If the police officer wants to find something - he can. Or he can just haul you in for disorderly conduct. People have been arrested with a charge of ... resisting arrest. That was the charge.
    realize that the law behind the citation has been ruled unconstitutional and either altered or removed (can't remember which at the moment). Until that time, it was a valid and enforceable law. As such, there is nothing improper about the citation the canoist received.

    as to disorderly conduct: based on what was stated, the officer would be lying in order to charge DC. So, either the cop lies and makes up a story or lets the guy go.

    Sorry but I am not going to be ruled by: the cop might break the law in order to play games with me when there is nothing to gain but lots to lose for him. If that were the case, I guess we all just ought to kow tow to every cop and let them have their way with us. Sorry but not going to happen. I guess if you want to kiss a cops ass and play his game, feel free. I gave no advice that would cause a confrontational situation unless the cop was hell bent on causing one. Of course there are bad cops out there that would but I tend to believe most are willing to abide by the law and either let the guy walk away or demand compliance due to a valid justification. You are simply a fear mongerer. I guess that makes you a Republican and I suspect you are also anti-gun rights and think the Patriot act is a good law.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Walking at Night and Stopped By the Police

    Quote Quoting John Cooper
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    I appreciate the feedback and commentary, most of it anyway, and after lengthy deliberation, consideration and weighing of all the options I have concluded that walking in my own neighborhood, especially after dark, is no longer in my or anyone else’s best interest and is not a good idea anymore.

    I had seriously considered calling the police department prior to going on the walks and giving them my name, description, location, route and cell phone number so there wouldn’t be any surprises or potential misunderstandings but aside from being outrageous I have zero confidence that it would do any good and may actually fail to achieve the desired result. Filing a complaint, speaking out, or any other action would serve no purpose productive or otherwise and would accomplish nothing but grief, hard feelings, continued animosity and possible harassment all of which I have no desire to initiate or be a party to.

    To our knowledge the neighborhood is and remains quiet and crime free and if anything has changed or there is anything inappropriate going on it would sure be nice if the police would clue the residents in and give us a heads up. Just simply going for a walk I would not want to inadvertently stumble upon anything illicit or encounter a less than desirable situation if I could otherwise avoid it.

    Simply taking a walk in my own neighborhood at any time is considered unusual and a suspicious activity by the police. This is indeed a sad, sorry and unfortunate state of affairs. I no longer have any reasonable expectation for a simple, hassle free nightly or daily stroll and the peace, quite, tranquility, and pleasure that I once knew and enjoyed from this simple pleasure is gone forever. I will miss it.
    what a great american you are.. boooo

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