Handicapped Parking

[cdwjava]

PC has dictated that far more parking spaces than necessary or reasonable are dedicated for handicapped parking and the fines also reflect the militancy associated with the minority supporting all of the expensive requirements.

And this opinion is supported by ... what?

Having family members who need those spaces, I have to disagree. There is a great need for these spaces whether you want to think so or not. You and I can walk the extra few feet to the front door ... most of those that have to use these spaces WISH they could walk the extra few feet to the door.

He should be thankful - many cities out here have the fines starting at $350.

- Carl

[chuckycheese]

Well, Carl, I can't tell you the specifics but my wife is an architect as well as a civil engineer and thinks the guidelines that outline the number of spaces (based on the facility) is arbitrary and unrealistic....also, as a casual observer, it certainly appears that to be correct. It's not unusual to find several at the base of a hiking trail or 15, or so, in front of mid-size hotel (the Embassay Suites near Sea-Tac, for instance).

In addition, the amount of the fine doesn't fit the crime. As I'm sure you know, it's similar to the amount you pay for running a red light....that seems unreasonable.

There's a need for some of those spaces, to be certain, but it's been overdone by knee-jerk 'do gooders'. As for me, I usually make no effort to park close to my destination because I walk at least 4 or 5 miles a day (bad back, so I walk 3 miles on a treadmill and at least 2 elsewhere) and, also, I don't want someone bashing in the door of my beautiful new BMW...(so I try to get away from the 'riff raff').

[cdwjava]

Well, Carl, I can't tell you the specifics but my wife is an architect as well as a civil engineer and thinks the guidelines that outline the number of spaces (based on the facility) is arbitrary and unrealistic....also, as a casual observer, it certainly appears that to be correct.

Perhaps in some cases - based upon a percentage of population. But, as a society that endeavors to give deference to the elderly and the infirm it is a small price to pay to add a few feet of walking distance to those who are capable so that those who are unable may function in some small measure of normalcy. When finding such a space makes the difference between going out or not, this can be a serious issue.

It's not unusual to find several at the base of a hiking trail or 15, or so, in front of mid-size hotel (the Embassay Suites near Sea-Tac, for instance).

So? How does that effect you or me? I can certainly walk the added few feet. My father couldn't ... my mother-in-law cannot.

In addition, the amount of the fine doesn't fit the crime. As I'm sure you know, it's similar to the amount you pay for running a red light....that seems unreasonable.

That's a factor of the importance upon which we set upon this offense. If we fined it at $27 or some such pittance, there would be little deterence. As it is almost EVERYONE knows that it is far too costly to risk the violation.

There's a need for some of those spaces, to be certain, but it's been overdone by knee-jerk 'do gooders'.

Count me among the proud "do gooders".

As for me, I usually make no effort to park close to my destination because I walk at least 4 or 5 miles a day (bad back) and, also, I don't want someone bashing in the door of my beautiful new BMW...(so I try to get away from the 'riff raff').

My 12-year-old Saturn SW and my 4-year-old Ford Windstar already have enough dings from the kids and from the wear and tear of life ... I don't concern myself overly much with that.

- Carl

[chuckycheese]

As far as the fine not being unreasonable, there's a huge difference between "a $27 pittance" and a $350 dollar fine. I think it would be easy to come up with a number in between (even without a calculator )

This is a little off-subject but, as a cop, I'm certain you also must realize that a large percentage of people with handicap plates have absolutely no business driving an automobile.

If people that apply for them were required to show that they can safely operate a motor vehicle (or that they will only be a passenger), I suspect there would be far fewer dangerous drivers on the road....when I see someone taking several minutes to get in or out of their car, it gives me a very eerie feeling. It's not hard to imagine what will happen to them because it happens every day...and when they crash, they usually hurt others in the process. There are countless examples here in California, alone, as I'm sure you're aware.

I shouldn't have mentioned the BMW; that was rude.

[cdwjava]

As far as the fine not being unreasonable, there's a huge difference between "a $27 pittance" and a $350 dollar fine. I think it would be easy to come up with a number in between (even without a calculator )

But, as this is an EASY offense not to get fined for, the amount is just fine. One does not accidentally park in a handiccaped spot.

This is a little off-subject but, as a cop, I'm certain you also must realize that a large percentage of people with handicap plates have absolutely no business driving an automobile.

A small percentage, sure. And there are likely many people who have the placards that do not deserve it. But, short of developing a much more complex and draconian system for issuing placards, this system works just fine.

We have other ways of re-evaluating poor drivers. Someday when we develop a perfect system, maybe we can solve all the potential problems. Until then, we have to live with the system we have. The fact that some people might have placards improperly and some may not be able to drive safely does not mean we should ignore those who DO need them and Do drive with reasonable safety.

I shouldn't have mentioned the BMW; that was rude.

It did seem a tad uncharacteristically egotistical.

- Carl

[deadlock]

Call me a "do gooder". I don't think it's an insult.

http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/de...ok/000829.html

I don't like to see someone parking in a handicapped space, then jump out of the car able to run in a store (or off on a hiking trail). Believe it or not sometimes those spaces at an outdoor park, etc are used for persons with, for example- Lou Gehrig’s disease and they are actually lifted out of a van and taken wheelchair, oxygen and all on a hiking trail, or whatever.

When I see someone who obviously isn't handicapped take a space, I tell them. They say "there are all these handicapped spaces ... and they never use them... empty" or some such..

But they are reserved in case they need them. Like a fire extinguisher.
Don't said it... take them down off the walls... our tax dollars should not be spent on something never used??

[chuckycheese]

Carl, I find it impossible to believe that you think someone who can barely walk is able to safely operate a car....or that you think only a small percentage of people with placards fall into that category. It's far too easy to receive a driver's license; being reasonable and saving lives is hardly 'draconian'. I dislike seeing people behind the wheel that shouldn't be driving...because I'm a real 'do gooder'.

I suppose my comment regarding the car could be considered egotistical but considering we're all strangers, it's a little bit different. For all you know, I may really drive a 1964 VW bus!!

[deadlock]

Carl, I find it impossible to believe that you think someone who can barely walk is able to safely operate a car....or that you think only a small percentage of people with placards fall into that category. It's far too easy to receive a driver's license; being reasonable and saving lives is hardly 'draconian'.

I suppose my comment regarding the car could be considered egotistical but considering we're all strangers, it's a little bit different. For all you know, I may really drive a 1964 VW bus!!

I'm sorry. I guess I should have said there is a person driving the car. No. I don't think someone who has a decal and is handicapped should use the decal to justify parking in a handicapped space when they are not using for the convenience of the handicapped person. And I agree the spaces are abused by people who have the decal or plates or a temporary permit. But they do. And that is probably who I see. Maybe you see as well. And I think they should be fined.

I disagree with you that the spaces allowed for handicapped persons are misappropriated.

And what is wrong with Volkswagons???

[deadlock]

I forgot-
http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13722

[cdwjava]

Carl, I find it impossible to believe that you think someone who can barely walk is able to safely operate a car

A person with a respiratory problem, a bad hip, a fused ankle, etc. can generally operate a motor vehicle adequately.

What would you set as the standard? An obstacle course?

All because someone cannot effectively walk a distance (for one of many reasons) does not mean they cannot safely operate a motor vehicle under most circumstances. The criteria is not that they operate a vehicle safely under all circumatnces, but that they can be safe under most of them.

If we wanted to go by capability we would restrict licenses to people over the age of 19.

....or that you think only a small percentage of people with placards fall into that category.

Since I have not done an exhaustive study on the truthfulness of those with placards, I can only go solely on my obervations ... and that would be that a small percentage have manipulated the system so. All because they do not appear to be disabled at first glance does not mean that they are not.

It's far too easy to receive a driver's license; being reasonable and saving lives is hardly 'draconian'. I dislike seeing people behind the wheel that shouldn't be driving...because I'm a real 'do gooder'.

I don't like unsafe people behind the wheel either. But to equate placards with unsafe driving ability is just plain wrong and not supported by any facts that I am aware of.

I suppose my comment regarding the car could be considered egotistical but considering we're all strangers, it's a little bit different. For all you know, I may really drive a 1964 VW bus!!

Maybe ... but that is a status symbol in and of itself.

- Carl