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  1. #1
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    Default A Complaint Are You Kidding

    Saw this story just a little bit ago.....
    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highsc...123930890.html

    I may be able to comment later, and I have never been the OMG-things-are-gettin'-really-worrisome sorta guy, but this kinda thing gives me a bit of a chill.

    What say you?
    "Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death.
    There is no appeal and execution is carried out automatically without pity."
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: A Complaint Are You Kidding

    In this incident I can understand why the chant was considered inflammatory. The chant had no reasonable place at the event because it was not an international event, but a state event where both teams were from the USA. Therefore, the chant had no contextual place except as an implied insult to the minority players. Attacking the other teams heritage and implying that they are inferior or non-citizens because of their heritage does not represent good sportsmanship.

    At international events, the chant would be perfectly accpetable. Would you feel differently if the minority team had chanted "Mexico, Mexico!" (or any other national name)?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: A Complaint Are You Kidding

    The chant had no reasonable place at the event because it was not an international event, but a state event where both teams were from the USA. Therefore, the chant had no contextual place except as an implied insult to the minority players. Attacking the other teams heritage and implying that they are inferior or non-citizens because of their heritage does not represent good sportsmanship.
    Yep. You know what you chant at a high school game? The name of your school, or your school's mascot. "Go! Rebels! Beat! The Tigers!" Or whatever.

    How come us Northerners get it (mostly), but this jingoistic nonsense is so prevalent to the South of us?
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: A Complaint Are You Kidding

    But ... uh ... how is chanting the name of your country racist? Okay, it might not be common nor necessary, but how many chants at school sporting events are either?

    The article on this seems to make no other inference that this was racist other than to point out that the other team consisted of a large number of Hispanics ... kids that are (presumably ... save for the border states, I suppose) U.S. citizens or, at least, legal residents. How, then, would that be offensive?

    Is it offensive now to say things that might be considered offensive to people not of American birth? Oh ... yeah ... that's right ... it is.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: A Complaint Are You Kidding

    cdw - The offense comes into play because of the heritage of the minority players. The fans were implying through the cheer that the players were not American or are second class citizens becuase of the ethnicity. As I've already mentioned, cheering "USA" when both teams are from the USA doesn't make sense, unless the chant was directed as derogitory at a team.

    Would you be offended if the other team had chanted "Mexico!"?

    edit: The American legal system has indeed stated that it is offensive to say things that might be construed as offensive to others...hence the raise in workplace discrimination and sexual harrassment suits. As an intelligent member of forum I'm sure you would agree that if a poster was subjected to sexual innuedo, you'd offer advice on how to file the proper sexual harrassment complaint. While this case is not sexual in nature, the premise is the same. One team is subjected to racial or ethnic harassment via innuedo.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: A Complaint Are You Kidding

    Quote Quoting antrc170
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    cdw - The offense comes into play because of the heritage of the minority players.
    Soooo ... am I to understand that Americans of Hispanic descent are to be offended at the name of their country??

    The fans were implying through the cheer that the players were not American or are second class citizens becuase of the ethnicity.
    And we know that ... how? The stories I have read indicated no additional comments or gestures that would have been in any way considered derogatory towards people of another ethnicity.

    As I've already mentioned, cheering "USA" when both teams are from the USA doesn't make sense, unless the chant was directed as derogitory at a team.
    I attend high school games with some frequency ... I have three sons and am guardian for a fourth and they are all athletes. MANY chants are asinine and pointless. If chanting the name of our country is offensive, holy smokes! Where does runaway political correctness end?! There is no right to be free from being offended. If hearing the name of your country offends you, gee, sorry.

    Would you be offended if the other team had chanted "Mexico!"?
    Considering we're not in Mexico, yeah, probably. Oh, and if you attend many local soccer games you WILL hear that chanted by Spanish leagues, professional soccer leagues, and even high school games. But, amazing, we don't seem to hear about those stories in the news. Apparently its only racist to support your country, not to dis it.

    edit: The American legal system has indeed stated that it is offensive to say things that might be construed as offensive to others...hence the raise in workplace discrimination and sexual harrassment suits.
    If any student had been disciplined over this, I believe the school district would have had their head handed to them on a plate. It didn't get to that level and it is doubtful it will.

    As an intelligent member of forum I'm sure you would agree that if a poster was subjected to sexual innuedo, you'd offer advice on how to file the proper sexual harrassment complaint. While this case is not sexual in nature, the premise is the same. One team is subjected to racial or ethnic harassment via innuedo.
    "American" is not a race or an ethnicity. The USA is the name of our country - the country that the students attend school, likely receive benefits from either the government or through gainful employment, and that pays for their schooling. If identifying as American offends them, perhaps they can head to a nation more to their liking and allegiance.

    This political correctness that we see where flying the American flag is considered offensive, saying the pledge of allegiance is intolerant, and expressing one's firmly held religious beliefs is considered hate speech, scares the holy hannah out of me. When we cease to identify ourselves as Americans or understand our heritage as a nation, we will simply cease to be.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"


    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: A Complaint Are You Kidding

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    The stories I have read indicated no additional comments or gestures that would have been in any way considered derogatory towards people of another ethnicity..
    Re-read the story. The students also chanted "Alamo Whites" in connection with the "USA" chant. That seems pretty derogatory.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    There is no right to be free from being offended..
    I never said that there was a right to be free from being offended. I only stated that I understand how and why the chant was considered inflamatory and that it was poor sportsmanship, not that it was illegal or violated anyone's rights.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    If any student had been disciplined over this, I believe the school district would have had their head handed to them on a plate. It didn't get to that level and it is doubtful it will..
    Re-read the story. The students responsbile for the chant were disciplined by being banned from the next game.

    cdw-I think that you are getting the wrong impression from my post. I am whole heartedly American and I hate political correctness. As a disabled combat vet I proudly hang my American flag above my USMC guidon. I do not support the dismantling of our national history or our foundation by banning the Pledge or the National Anthem.

    What I am saying is that as Americans, parents and citizens we must continue to show good sportsmanship during our games on all levels. I do not believe that the chant was illegal or in violation of anyone's Constitutional rights. I do believe that the students chanting it were using it as an insult to the losing team, which I do not condone.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: A Complaint Are You Kidding

    Quote Quoting antrc170
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    Re-read the story. The students also chanted "Alamo Whites" in connection with the "USA" chant. That seems pretty derogatory.
    I hadn't read that part of the story, though I read it yesterday. Maybe that's something new today or from another outlet, but that's not what I read from three sources yesterday. If so, then that adds a different twist to it and if used together I can see why they put the kabosh to it.

    But, I stand by my contention that by itself chanting "USA" or "America" is not offensive - or should not be.

    I never said that there was a right to be free from being offended. I only stated that I understand how and why the chant was considered inflamatory and that it was poor sportsmanship, not that it was illegal or violated anyone's rights.
    It's also poor sportsmanship, rude and crude to chant "loser" or sing the song "Goodbye" when you have just wiped the floor with the opponent, but that doesn't make the news.

    Re-read the story. The students responsbile for the chant were disciplined by being banned from the next game.
    Again, that was not in yesterday's stories. At that time the principals of both schools stated they wanted to let it go. By trying to ban someone they stand the real possibility of opening the school to litigation if all the banned students said was "USA."

    What I am saying is that as Americans, parents and citizens we must continue to show good sportsmanship during our games on all levels.
    I agree. But, as one who attends dozens of high school and youth sporting events each year, immature and even unsportsmanlike behavior from fans is somewhat common. Yes, staff tend to shut it down when it occurs, but it doesn't make national news. The ONLY reason this made national headlines was because it was turned into a race issue ... more of an attempt to reinforce what seems to be a tendency to discourage national pride or even discourage speaking one's mind on issues related to immigration. I can pretty much guarantee you that had the winning team chanted "Mexico," Or "Colombia," "Palestine," or even "Iran" that it would not have made headlines beyond outlets like WND or some other fringe blogs, even though it would have been just as unsportsmanlike.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"


    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns

  9. #9
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    Default Re: A Complaint Are You Kidding

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    "American" is not a race or an ethnicity. The USA is the name of our country - the country that the students attend school, likely receive benefits from either the government or through gainful employment, and that pays for their schooling. If identifying as American offends them, perhaps they can head to a nation more to their liking and allegiance.

    This political correctness that we see where flying the American flag is considered offensive, saying the pledge of allegiance is intolerant, and expressing one's firmly held religious beliefs is considered hate speech, scares the holy hannah out of me. When we cease to identify ourselves as Americans or understand our heritage as a nation, we will simply cease to be.
    That is exactly my sentiment Carl. I would love to have the opportunity to be the one that receives this complaint. I'd be sending the complainant out the same door they entered with a complimentary box of kleenex and SORRY YA GOT YOUR WITTLE FEELINGS HURT ringing in their ears.

    The slippery slope this sorta thing edges up to is quite worrisome!!!

    I do have one other sentiment..........USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!...........

    Quote Quoting antrc170
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    The chant had no reasonable place at the event because it was not an international event, but a state event where both teams were from the USA.
    So, following your line of thinking, the chanting of "USA" is contextually wrong unless it's an international soiree? I reckon we should have been spanked for it at a baseball game 'cause we were offending the non-American players and attendees?

    Excuse me while I go see what sorta complaint Juan Pablo Montoya filed 'cause we did it at Talladega, Kansas, and (OH MY HEAVENS!) Texas last year.
    "Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death.
    There is no appeal and execution is carried out automatically without pity."
    Robert A. Heinlein

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