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  1. #1
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    Default Child Support Fraud

    My question involves child support in the State of: Maryland

    Lets just say this is hypothetical. A man knocks a woman up. The women seems to want the baby so the man steps out of the picture. There happens to be another man standing in this picture. The woman manages to make this other man believe the kid is his. The baby is born and the woman has the first man paying her child support. Several years go buy. The first man hears rumors that this woman soon left this other guy and married someone else. But there is talk that this child has been living with this other man. Some even say she still keeps the child support money. The first man hears these things and doesn't know what to do. He could see if social services will look into this. But that might result in the other man finding out the child is not his. People say the other man might adopt the child but the man doesn't want to take the chance of angering the woman. She could make his life harder. Even if the rumors aren't true. But if they are the man does not want his hard earned money going to that woman.

    Assuming the rumors are true can someone give this man some advice as to where to take this? And has this woman committed a crime? Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Child Support Fraud Interesting Situation

    Yeah, instead of a hypothetical, why not just give us the details?

    Like is there a LEGAL father in the picture or is someone just handing Mom money?

    And no - Mom hasn't committed any crimes. If a couple of guys can't be bothered to file for paternity before giving her money, that's not Mom's fault. If some guy is paying Mom money and doesn't bother to get it changed because the child isn't living with Mom any more? Again, not Mom's fault.
    An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise - Victor Hugo

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Child Support Fraud Interesting Situation

    Yes, Mom could well have committed a crime, for instance if she falsely swore to facts on court documents or if she defrauded social services in any way. She is committing paternity fraud, and whether she committed specific crimes or not, it is certainly Mom's fault. It is also morally reprehensible, and attributing no moral agency or responsibility to women shows an agenda and a half.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Child Support Fraud Interesting Situation

    Quote Quoting Michael44
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    Yes, Mom could well have committed a crime, for instance if she falsely swore to facts on court documents or if she defrauded social services in any way. She is committing paternity fraud, and whether she committed specific crimes or not, it is certainly Mom's fault. It is also morally reprehensible, and attributing no moral agency or responsibility to women shows an agenda and a half.
    And you're basing this on what exactly?

    We don't even know whether or not paternity has been established. Based PURELY on the OP's initial post, Mom has committed no crime.

    Leave morality out of it. This is about legalities.
    An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise - Victor Hugo

    Do not microwave grapes

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Child Support Fraud Interesting Situation

    Looks like I didn't explain this as well as I had hoped. There was a paternity test. It would be stupid not to. He is paying child support. He pays the state, the state pays the woman. The other man who is actually the primary care giver was in a position to think it was his. Besides he really wants to be a father. I'd say it worked out for him. LOL, there is a reason I didn't give this many details. And hypothetical made it sound more generic. But if it can win one more good response I have included them here. Now I am not sure I want her getting jail time. She is the sort to try to retaliate. And I am not sure how this guy is going to take this either. There is a chance it could all back fire on me and I would be worse off then before. I was really hoping for some good sound advice. I don't want to leave it as it is. This woman is getting someone else's money. It is fraud when it comes down to it but the state may or may not see it that way. Advice?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Child Support Fraud Interesting Situation

    We're not dentists and despite what you may think, the situation is not unique or special.

    So, let's get down to the bare bones.

    The child has a legal father who is paying child support - correct?

    And some other guy is currently taking care of the child on a day-to-day basis - correct?

    Who are you in this?

    If we're wrong so far, then please spell it out. We're volunteers here, and we don't have time to waste pulling teeth.
    An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise - Victor Hugo

    Do not microwave grapes

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Child Support Fraud Interesting Situation

    Quote Quoting Peashooters
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    Lets just say this is hypothetical. A man knocks a woman up. The women seems to want the baby so the man steps out of the picture.... The baby is born and the woman has the first man paying her child support.
    The first man, then, is the acknowledged legal and biological father? And he is the biological father? No problem there.
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    There happens to be another man standing in this picture. The woman manages to make this other man believe the kid is his.
    Does this second man know how babies are made?
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    Several years go buy. The first man hears rumors that this woman soon left this other guy and married someone else. But there is talk that this child has been living with this other man.
    When you choose not to have a relationship with your child, these things happen.
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    Some even say she still keeps the child support money.
    Some even say the sun revolves around the Earth. So what?
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    The first man hears these things and doesn't know what to do. He could see if social services will look into this. But that might result in the other man finding out the child is not his.
    So you're stating that the legal and biological father is paying child support, and is upset that this second man believes he's the actual biological father of the child, but at the same time is terrified that the second man will find out that he's not actually the biological father? That's not consistent. If you're suggesting that the biological father is party of a concerted, years-long effort to deceive the second man about paternity, what does he have to complain about?
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    People say the other man might adopt the child but the man doesn't want to take the chance of angering the woman.
    People say the moon is made of 'green cheese'. Who cares?

    How do "people" propose that this adoption could occur against the wishes of both legal and biological parents?
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    She could make his life harder.
    How? By having him raise another one of her children?
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    Even if the rumors aren't true. But if they are the man does not want his hard earned money going to that woman.
    If we're now talking about the legal / biological father, he is free to petition a court to modify the support and custody order such that this third party gets custody and he pays his support to the third party. But as long as he's choosing not to have a relationship with his child, he can expect to continue to pay child support.
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    Assuming the rumors are true can someone give this man some advice as to where to take this?
    Which man is "this man"?
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    And has this woman committed a crime? Thanks.
    We don't yet have sufficient facts to know. If she's receiving public assistance for a child who is not actually part of her household, that could be a problem.
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    View Post
    There was a paternity test. It would be stupid not to. He is paying child support. He pays the state, the state pays the woman.
    Perhaps we should start calling the biological / legal father "not stupid man" and the other guy "stupid man"? By " He pays the state, the state pays the woman" do you simply mean that support is paid through a child support agency? That's not even slightly unusual.
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    The other man who is actually the primary care giver was in a position to think it was his.
    Um... Missionary position?
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    Besides he really wants to be a father.
    So we're back to, "Does this second man know how babies are made?" (You say he's stupid.)
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    Now I am not sure I want her getting jail time. She is the sort to try to retaliate.
    You haven't yet identified any criminal activity, so jail time seems quite unlikely.
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    And I am not sure how this guy is going to take this either.
    How he's going to take what? The "shock" of learning that the child's legal and biological father, who pays support for the benefit of the child, is in fact the child's legal and biological father?
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    There is a chance it could all back fire on me and I would be worse off then before.
    Which is to say, you're the neglectful legal / biological father who doesn't want a relationship with his child? By "worse off than before", do you mean that if you pretend to be concerned about your child or pretend to be concerned about where the child lives, the court might suggest that you take the time to see your child or, horror of horrors, suggest that you take custody and raise your child?
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    I was really hoping for some good sound advice. I don't want to leave it as it is.
    Sure you do. You have told us that you're terrified that the man will find out that you and mom have been lying to him for years. You have told us that you don't want to do anything "that might result in the other man finding out the child is not his."
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    This woman is getting someone else's money.
    The mother is getting child support pursuant to a child support order that you have never challenged. That's how child support works.
    Quote Quoting Peashooters
    It is fraud when it comes down to it but the state may or may not see it that way. Advice?
    What is fraud? Your years of lying to the 'stupid man' to lead him to believe that the child is his, so that you could walk away from parental responsibilities? You're right - that's awful, but it's not a crime.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Child Support Fraud

    So the order should be challanged by the first guy. Alright, I'll just take what I can get here. Thanks everyone.

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